At what point does Skepticism become cruel?

Beady said:
There are many situations where the warmth is all that matters.
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If you do absolutely not care for the truth in those situations, yes.

If a situation like that continues for a long enough time, then whoever needs the warmth has a bigger problem that should be addressed accordingly, though. (Because, again, I value truth, and it has not been shown that that position should be dominated by the one where truth doesn't matter.)
 
Axenos said:
No, I do not, but the key to this for me is " some poor simpleton who will not know any better ".

There are people who will not understand a logical argument, either by hard-headedness or simple lack of intelligence, and these are the people I am referring to.

The hard-heads I don't mind so much... but if someone of lower intelligence is reassured by dubious information, and will not truly understand a realistic argument, then should we "hurt" them by destroying their hope about something?

Axe
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My, you do have great faith in your "superior" intelligence, don't you?

Perhaps you should work on your powers of pursuasion.

I have never had a problem disabusing anyone of their fanciful ideation, when they were amenable to it.

On the other hand, I've met some very "high IQ" folks who stubbornly resisted any attempts to enlighten them.

BS is recognizable by even the the most apparently "lowly" among us. You would do well to learn that.

M.
 
Axenos said:
True enough... my comment was more of a tongue-in-cheek oversimplification... I tend to prefer very subtle humor... sometimes only humorous to me... :)

Regards,

Axe
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Yes, another one of our best inherent abilities- humour. Tongue-in-cheek I find especially amusing but I also remain concious of the fact that there are those who just don't get it and take things literally. 'There is no meaning to life' however, seems pretty unambiguous to me.
 
Moochie said:
My, you do have great faith in your "superior" intelligence, don't you?

Perhaps you should work on your powers of pursuasion.

I have never had a problem disabusing anyone of their fanciful ideation, when they were amenable to it.

On the other hand, I've met some very "high IQ" folks who stubbornly resisted any attempts to enlighten them.

BS is recognizable by even the the most apparently "lowly" among us. You would do well to learn that.

M.
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Reading is fundamental... Have you read through this entire thread? No, I didn't think so...

You will find that I do not see myself as having "superior" intelligence... that's simply laughable...

"I have never had a problem disabusing anyone of their fanciful ideation, when they were amenable to it." The important part of that is "amenable". What if they aren't? What if they do not possess the tools to be "amenable"?
Isn't this what the whole thread is about, more or less?

Work on my powers of persuasion? That would be great, but it is obvious that I am not trying to persuade anyone about anything in this... I am just listening to opinion.

You wish to flame me, that's cool, but at least have a solid base to do it...

Best Regards,

Axe

(Edited for spelling, not content)
 
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kitakaze said:
Yes, another one of our best inherent abilities- humour. Tongue-in-cheek I find especially amusing but I also remain concious of the fact that there are those who just don't get it and take things literally. 'There is no meaning to life' however, seems pretty unambiguous to me.
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True again... sometimes I get a bit dark about humanity in general...

Regards,

Axe
 
So many false dichotomies...

One does not have to perpetuate a lie to be friendly.
One does not have to be mean to correct someone who is mistaken.
One does not have to be cruel to expose another's self-delusion.
It is not cruel to let someone believe in a concept that is not provable (afterlife, invisible pink unicorns, god).

In other words, we are not doing anyone a favor by telling them that they are probably wasting their time in prayer.

Some here revel in that and I find such joy to be cruel.
 
Axenos said:
Reading is fundamental... Have you read through this entire thread? No, I didn't think so...

You will find that I do not see myself as having "superior" intelligence... that's simply laughable...

"I have never had a problem disabusing anyone of their fanciful ideation, when they were amenable to it." The important part of that is "amenable". What if they aren't? What if they do not possess the tools to be "amenable"?
Isn't this what the whole thread is about, more or less?

Work on my powers of persuasion? That would be great, but it is obvious that I am not trying to persuade anyone about anything in this... I am just listening to opinion.

You wish to flame me, that's cool, but at least have a solid base to do it...

Best Regards,

Axe

(Edited for spelling, not content)
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Wasn't it you who used language like "some poor simpleton who will not know any better" and "lack of intelligence" and "someone of lower intelligence"?

Define "intelligence," if you will.

M.
 
i like this thread...

of some of the things that we do know, what we are making of the present will wake up in the children of our children...I personally have hope that the efforts we take today will be the better ones to make self accountability and reliability...to turn the word impossible into I'M possible! and to go into what the potential human can truly be..rather than degrade and decompose in the mire that is religion...if we truly were to count all the lives taken in the name or God or actions of what is otherwise murder or killing in the name of God, what would we have to compare that against....the real thing of all this belief garbage in the first place is to remove the oness off of the self and place it on the shoulders of something external to us all...we are the ones responsible for we..and that goes deep down to the i, the you and the me...

we have never been closer to annihilating ourselves and never closer to finding out what is beyond this capacity that we so obsess upon being human..meaning, purpose, reason...all part of our collective hopes, but never more than weights upon our ankles, tying and binding us back, whatever we truly are, we have the capacity as a collective whole for expansion and likewise, retraction...I will not let my view of humanity be anything other than what can make it grow and what needs to be cut out, cut off, removed and let go of in order to do that...so much of what we hold onto that we feel "identifies" us, only indebts us to whatever limits that "identity" contains as its definition.
 
kitakaze said:
What thread are you reading? Not this one it seems.
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Sorry, I didn't get the full quote in. Here it is again:

Bravo. There is no point or good that can come from arguing with someone about their faith. I’ve noticed that is a real problem with some people on this board to just accept people as they are. They have to jam their ideas down someone else’s throat. Believe what you will and let them believe what they want. Compassion is a good thing. Don’t be jaded by those who have out smarted themselves and lost their compassion.
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My meaning, in case it escaped you, was that if people like Kurious Kathy insist on coming to this forum to display their beliefs, then they are fair game. Or isn't this a skeptics' forum?

M.
 
Moochie said:
Wasn't it you who used language like "some poor simpleton who will not know any better" and "lack of intelligence" and "someone of lower intelligence"?

Define "intelligence," if you will.

M.
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I have already acknowledged the fact that "some poor simpleton" was a poor choice of words... Oh, that's right, you would have to have read the whole thread to find that...

And yes, I will use "someone of lower intelligence" and "lack of intelligence". Not politically correct enough for you? So sorry.

Would you like to know why? While I am no mad raving genius, I am aware that I am smarter than a lot of people. I do not say that to be cocky, arrogant, or whatever, I just know it's true and accept that.

Websters first 3 of intelligence:

1 a (1) : the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations : REASON; also : the skilled use of reason (2) : the ability to apply knowledge to manipulate one's environment or to think abstractly as measured by objective criteria (as tests) b Christian Science : the basic eternal quality of divine Mind c : mental acuteness : SHREWDNESS
2 a : an intelligent entity; especially : ANGEL b : intelligent minds or mind <cosmic intelligence>
3 : the act of understanding : COMPREHENSION

Am I more intelligent than some by this defintion? Yes, I am.

You cannot tell me that EVERYONE you know is capable of some or even all of these definitions...

Read, reason, then post... your knee-jerk reactions make you look foolish...

Warmest Regards,

Axe

(Edited for grammar...)
 
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LONGWALK said:
of some of the things that we do know, what we are making of the present will wake up in the children of our children...I personally have hope that the efforts we take today will be the better ones to make self accountability and reliability...to turn the word impossible into I'M possible! and to go into what the potential human can truly be..rather than degrade and decompose in the mire that is religion...if we truly were to count all the lives taken in the name or God or actions of what is otherwise murder or killing in the name of God, what would we have to compare that against....the real thing of all this belief garbage in the first place is to remove the oness off of the self and place it on the shoulders of something external to us all...we are the ones responsible for we..and that goes deep down to the i, the you and the me...

we have never been closer to annihilating ourselves and never closer to finding out what is beyond this capacity that we so obsess upon being human..meaning, purpose, reason...all part of our collective hopes, but never more than weights upon our ankles, tying and binding us back, whatever we truly are, we have the capacity as a collective whole for expansion and likewise, retraction...I will not let my view of humanity be anything other than what can make it grow and what needs to be cut out, cut off, removed and let go of in order to do that...so much of what we hold onto that we feel "identifies" us, only indebts us to whatever limits that "identity" contains as its definition.
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Longwalk, I agree with much of what you said in this post in that striving to fulfill a greater potential and possibility of what we coud be as a race is the greatest cause. Just a couple points...
if we truly were to count all the lives taken in the name or God or actions of what is otherwise murder or killing in the name of God, what would we have to compare that against....
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Tell you what, forget God. If you count the number of people that have died as a result of conflicting belief systems can I count the number that have averted or alleviated suffering based on one? Can I count the achievements of humankind done in tribute to a belief system? What shall we do when we've tallied the score?
the real thing of all this belief garbage in the first place is to remove the oness off of the self and place it on the shoulders of something external to us all...
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What of those faiths that strive to remove the oneness of the self and devote it to us all?
snip...we have never been closer to annihilating ourselves
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We most certainly have.
 
Axenos said:
I have already acknowledged the fact that "some poor simpleton" was a poor choice of words... Oh, that's right, you would have to have read the whole thread to find that...
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Typical politician -- "Oops! I did it again!" Perhaps you could choose your words more wisely next time.

And yes, I will use "someone of lower intelligence" and "lack of intelligence". Not politically correct enough for you? So sorry.

Would you like to know why? While I am no mad raving genius, I am aware that I am smarter than a lot of people. I do not say that to be cocky, arrogant, or whatever, I just know it's true and accept that.
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That's what I said. :|

Websters first 3 of intelligence:

1 a (1) : the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations : REASON; also : the skilled use of reason (2) : the ability to apply knowledge to manipulate one's environment or to think abstractly as measured by objective criteria (as tests) b Christian Science : the basic eternal quality of divine Mind c : mental acuteness : SHREWDNESS
2 a : an intelligent entity; especially : ANGEL b : intelligent minds or mind <cosmic intelligence>
3 : the act of understanding : COMPREHENSION

You cannot tell me that EVERYONE you know is capable some or even all of these definitions...
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It's fairly obvious to me that you have never tried to find out.

Read, reason, then post... your knee-jerk reactions make you look foolish...
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Your malevolence shines brightly.

Warmest Regards,
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As does your sarcasm.

M.

(Edited to remove Axe's name.)
 
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Axenos said:
Hardcore skeptic walks up to person playing clarinet and says " You know, since she's been dead for four years, there is no way that she could hear you."
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Two ways to make this even more tactless:

"Two years, I could see. Maybe three. But four? Don't be ridiculous!"

or:

"Maybe you should play louder!"
 
Moochie said:
Typical politician -- "Oops! I did it again!" Perhaps you could choose your words more wisely next time.
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Politician? If you knew me, you'd find good humor in that... Of course I should choose words more wisely, but alas, while basking in my "superior" intelligence I just overlooked that aspect...

Ok, turning off the sarcasm... for now.

It's apparent that continuing this argument with you will serve no useful purpose, other than a pleasant distraction. You seem to be as tight-minded and smug as you accuse me of being, and that's OK, because I respect your opinion.

OK, sarcasm back on again...

Warmest, Kindest, Loving Regards, :p

Axe
 
Axenos said:
Politician? If you knew me, you'd find good humor in that... Of course I should choose words more wisely, but alas, while basking in my "superior" intelligence I just overlooked that aspect...

Ok, turning off the sarcasm... for now.

It's apparent that continuing this argument with you will serve no useful purpose, other than a pleasant distraction. You seem to be as tight-minded and smug as you accuse me of being, and that's OK, because I respect your opinion.

OK, sarcasm back on again...

Warmest, Kindest, Loving Regards, :p

Axe
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What Ever. :)

(Edited to add smiley.)
 
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The Painter said:
Bravo. There is no point or good that can come from arguing with someone about their faith. I’ve noticed that is a real problem with some people on this board to just accept people as they are. They have to jam their ideas down someone else’s throat. Believe what you will and let them believe what they want. Compassion is a good thing. Don’t be jaded by those who have out smarted themselves and lost their compassion.
Click to expand...

Moochie said:
Sorry, I didn't get the full quote in. Here it is again:



My meaning, in case it escaped you, was that if people like Kurious Kathy insist on coming to this forum to display their beliefs, then they are fair game. Or isn't this a skeptics' forum?

M.
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I'll assume for the moment that I am not aware that Kurious Kathy and The Painter are the same person and that your meaning did not escape me and state that I don't see The Painter explicitly stating a belief in congruence with the anecdote relating to christianity in the post he/she responded to. However, if this is a game to you and he/she is a fair target than here's to you finding a better one. BTW, yes this is a skeptics' forum but I wasn't aware that preaching to the choir was a prerequisite to comment on it. Skepticism is like a very cool hat that often looks funny on those who try to wear it.
 
kitakaze said:
I'll assume for the moment that I am not aware that Kurious Kathy and The Painter are the same person and that your meaning did not escape me and state that I don't see The Painter explicitly stating a belief in congruence with the anecdote relating to christianity in the post he/she responded to. However, if this is a game to you and he/she is a fair target than here's to you finding a better one. BTW, yes this is a skeptics' forum but I wasn't aware that preaching to the choir was a prerequisite to comment on it. Skepticism is like a very cool hat that often looks funny on those who try to wear it.
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Ho hum...

Nose out of joint again?

M.
 
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