Board political breakdown.

[Upchurch]

I'll have a stab at it a USA Liberal is for small government, as little intervention into personal life as possible by the state and wide provision of social services. The USA Conservative is for a larger government, increased regulation on industry and more state policies to control personal freedoms but less social services?

Wow. That's pretty much exactly backwards from what most Americans would say (except for the social services), but I can completely see how you drew that conclusion, given the gay marriage debate and all.

 

[Meadmaker]

Quite seriously what's the difference between the USA flavours of liberal and conservative? It can't be that the Democrats are liberal and the Republicans are conservative since you need a feeler gauge to measure the differences between the parties.

(ETA)

I do need to know to be able to vote!

I'll have a stab at it a USA Liberal is for small government, as little intervention into personal life as possible by the state and wide provision of social services. The USA Conservative is for a larger government, increased regulation on industry and more state policies to control personal freedoms but less social services?

The self described conservative in the USA wants less regulation on industry, while the self described liberal wants more.

I put socially liberal, fiscal conservative, but I almost put "Planet X". The "fiscal conservative" part comes from me being a "deficit hawk". I don't care what you do, it just makes me mad that we're borrowing money from our kids.

The social liberal label will surprise many, because once again I think the labels are all messed up in America. A liberal ought to allow people to live in any way that doesn't harm anyone else. That doesn't mean he ought to think that no way is better than any other, and it doesn't mean that government ought to support every possible way of living. If you want government out of your private life, demand that they get out, instead of demanding that they get in, on your terms.

 

[Jocko]

The social liberal label will surprise many, because once again I think the labels are all messed up in America. A liberal ought to allow people to live in any way that doesn't harm anyone else.

Right on. Modern, institutional liberalism is all about complete freedom for everyone - as long as you accept the definition of freedom they give you.

Conservatism used to be about getting the government out of the discussion altogether (the only correct answer, IMHO) but sadly has just substituted its own version of the same technique.

 

[Darat]

OK - you have left me utterly confused.

Normally I just try to nod condescendingly when you USAians change the meaning and spelling of the words of our language but you've gone too far this time! You need a nationwide campaign to get your political terms back into some sort of sensible alignment with the rest of the world.

Serious questions this time:

What does liberal and conservative mean for a USAian?
Do the terms "liberal" or "conservative" have any bearing on which party you support?
Can either party be described as "conservative" or "liberal"?

 

[Meffy]

@Darat: The confusion lies between the official party platforms and what office-holders actually do. The "conservatives" used to moan endlessly about "tax and spend liberals," until the Bush administration and Republican-held Congress made previous expenditures under liberals look paltry by comparison with their excesses. Same with governmental intrusion into private affairs; under Bush it's the thing to do. On the other side of the aisle you have some nominal "liberals" in Congress who talk a good line about social justice while turning a blind eye to problems they could address in their home districts. And so on and so forth. Hypocrisy knows no wingedness, there's enough to spread around. :-(

[edited for clearer wording]

 

[Meffy]

P.S.: Always remember -- "Old statisticians never die, they just get broken down by age and sex."

 

[Upchurch]

What does liberal and conservative mean for a USAian?

Classically, a "liberal" challenges the status quo and a "conservative" maintains it. For example, liberals are generally for gay marriage because it challenges the traditional social value that homosexuality is immoral or wrong. Conservatives would oppose it because it represents a change to the status quo.

Conservatives generally support smaller government because that is what our country was originally designed to have. Liberals tend to support larger government programs, not specifically because smaller government is the status quo, but because it tends to support social issues and ideas that do challenge the status quo.

Do the terms "liberal" or "conservative" have any bearing on which party you support? Can either party be described as "conservative" or "liberal"?

[/quote]Not for me, because neither party are strictly liberal or conservative, or even remotely so. The labels are definitely misapplied.

 

[RyanRoberts]

I voted liberal/conservative. Even though I am from the UK, my economic politics are roughly in line with the right wing of American opinion. I would privatise the NHS for one. This marks me as pretty much crazy in the eyes of most of my countrymen.

 

[Dragonrock]

Okay, Let me take a stab at definitions.

Socially
Liberal - Whatever you want to do with yourself, as long as you don't hurt anyone else
Conservative - Limits are needed for a society to function

Fiscally
Liberal - The only one who really knows what to do with money is the government, therefore give it all in taxes and let us divide it up
Conservative - Touch not my money! I earned it, I do with it as I see fit

The political parties can generally be divided up as
Socialist/Green - fiscally liberal and socially conservative
Libertarian - fiscally conservative and socially liberal
Democrat - Fiscally and socially liberal
Republican - Fiscally and socially conservative

ETA: I see that Upchurch has given dictionary definitions of "liberal" and "conservative", my definitions are based more on how the words are used to describe political views.

 

[BPSCG]

I'll make it easy:

• Conservative = patriotic Americans
• Liberal = treacherous, traiterous slime

Hope this helps.

 

[Upchurch]

Socially
Liberal - Whatever you want to do with yourself, as long as you don't hurt anyone else
Conservative - Limits are needed for a society to function

Fiscally
Liberal - The only one who really knows what to do with money is the government, therefore give it all in taxes and let us divide it up
Conservative - Touch not my money! I earned it, I do with it as I see fit

I agree.

The political parties can generally be divided up as
Socialist/Green - fiscally liberal and socially conservative
Libertarian - fiscally conservative and socially liberal
Democrat - Fiscally and socially liberal
Republican - Fiscally and socially conservative

Ideally, yes, but this is not the reality, at least not with the Democrat and Republican break downs. I would say both parties are, based on your definitions, fiscally liberal and socially conservative.

 

[Upchurch]

Maybe I should have included a "legal" or "governmental" distinction as well?

 

[ImaginalDisc]

Upchruch, you did a very good thing to seperate the fiscually and poltically conversative and liberal bits. I'll take a stab at it.

Acording to classical defintions, Libertarians are "liberal" poltically and fiscally, because they claim that people should be free to do as they please, without hinderance or help from the government. Both the Democrats and Republicans in the Us advocate spending lots of money, the only difference being that Dems advocate taxation, and Rep advocate borrowing, in general. In that sense, neither party is fiscally "liberal". They only differ on how much to allocate, not how much to spend.

 

[Upchurch]

A liberal ought to allow people to live in any way that doesn't harm anyone else. That doesn't mean he ought to think that no way is better than any other, and it doesn't mean that government ought to support every possible way of living. If you want government out of your private life, demand that they get out, instead of demanding that they get in, on your terms.

Close, but not quite. A social liberal, in thinking that people ought to be able to live any way that dosn't harm anyone else, would think that the government should not provide unequal support to a particular way of living over another for no reason other than an outdated social moral.

It is not an issue of whether or not the government should be in people's lives. It is an issue of whether or not the government is treating it citizens equally or if it is creating a social class system.

 

[Meadmaker]

Thinking about "fiscal conservative" versus "fiscal liberal" I came up with a way to explain why I think of myself as a fiscal conservative, even though I'm way out of step with the Republican party.

A conservative, just going by the word itself, would be someone who wants to keep things the way they are, or using a slightly different sense of the word, would not want too many new things. When it comes to government spending, I think government ought to stick to things government ought to do, and not try to get involved in a whole bunch of new stuff. That makes me conservative. On the other hand, I think the things government ought to do, like fund education, might be pretty expensive.

 

[Meadmaker]

Close, but not quite. A social liberal, in thinking that people ought to be able to live any way that dosn't harm anyone else, would think that the government should not provide unequal support to a particular way of living over another for no reason other than an outdated social moral.

It is not an issue of whether or not the government should be in people's lives. It is an issue of whether or not the government is treating it citizens equally or if it is creating a social class system.

By that concept of liberalism, an extremely restrictive government would be liberal as long as it repressed everyone equally.

I think the American left went astray by thinking that "equality" was a worthy goal.

If government is indeed supporting one way of living over another, that would be at least somewhat illiberal.

 

[Meffy]

Popeye is a fisk-al liberal. "WwwwwwwWHAM! An' I gots more where that cames from."

 

[Upchurch]

By that concept of liberalism, an extremely restrictive government would be liberal as long as it repressed everyone equally.

Only if that were a complete definition of "liberal".

I think the American left went astray by thinking that "equality" was a worthy goal.

Equality is a liberal idea because it challenges the inequality status quo of the past.

If government is indeed supporting one way of living over another, that would be at least somewhat illiberal.

I have no idea how you draw that conclusion.

 

[Grammatron]

I put down Socially Liberal and Fiscally Conservative.

Of course, what you mean by either may change that vote, hope that helps

 

[DaChew]

Uh. I was looking for Social drinker - Fiscally irresponsible but it's not there.