Marriage Debate

bluess said:
Yep, a hundred years ago, we didn't have a computer to send letters to grandma on. This is outside of our experience and tradition, and therefore we should try to pass a constitutional amendment to keep from sending email to grandma....


Sorry, couldn't help myself....
Click to expand...

Change just for the sake of change isn't necessarily to everyone's benefit.
 
Hardenbergh said:
Change just for the sake of change isn't necessarily to everyone's benefit.
Click to expand...

Yep, the lots of menfolk wanted to know what benefit they got from women getting the vote. Or being able to sign contracts without their husbands approval.

And in my own life experience, the membership team of a nearby country club sure didn't think it was in their benefit to allow colored foreigners to join their club when the equal access laws were being pushed through in the 60s and 70s. Of course, they seem to have realized they could benefit by the money when they asked my dad to join in the 80s, after refusing him in the 60s.

Many things we do as a culture, and espouse under the American ideals of liberty, equality and justice do not benefit EVERYONE. Some even hurt us while they are in process - I'm sure someone has a study someplace showing how men lost jobs as women began to gain them.
 
bluess said:
Yep, the lots of menfolk wanted to know what benefit they got from women getting the vote. Or being able to sign contracts without their husbands approval.

And in my own life experience, the membership team of a nearby country club sure didn't think it was in their benefit to allow colored foreigners to join their club when the equal access laws were being pushed through in the 60s and 70s. Of course, they seem to have realized they could benefit by the money when they asked my dad to join in the 80s, after refusing him in the 60s.

Many things we do as a culture, and espouse under the American ideals of liberty, equality and justice do not benefit EVERYONE. Some even hurt us while they are in process - I'm sure someone has a study someplace showing how men lost jobs as women began to gain them.
Click to expand...

These changes were all good ones. Many (not all) men still expect their wives to do most of the cooking, shopping, laundry and housework even though they're out in the workplace.
 
Hardenbergh said:
These changes were all good ones. Many (not all) men still expect their wives to do most of the cooking, shopping, laundry and housework even though they're out in the workplace.
Click to expand...
That raises the quesiton of why these changes are good ones and gay marriage is not. Or why those opposed these kinds of changes in the past did so when the correctness of the change seems obvious to most of us now.
 
Upchurch said:
That raises the quesiton of why these changes are good ones and gay marriage is not. Or why those opposed these kinds of changes in the past did so when the correctness of the change seems obvious to most of us now.
Click to expand...

I just feel that allowing women to vote is much different than allowing same-sex couples to marry. There were many more women wanting to vote than same-sex couples wanting to marry.
 
Hardenbergh said:
I just feel that allowing women to vote is much different than allowing same-sex couples to marry. There were many more women wanting to vote than same-sex couples wanting to marry.
Click to expand...

So, if only a few women wanted to vote, then it would have been fine to not extend the voting rights?

So, if only a few women wanted to be able to sign contracts for themselves without their husbands' approval, then it would have been fine to not allow them that ability?
 
Hardenbergh said:
I just feel that allowing women to vote is much different than allowing same-sex couples to marry. There were many more women wanting to vote than same-sex couples wanting to marry.
Click to expand...

So the question of whether something is a right is based on the number of people who want to exercise it? How does that work?
 
Hardenbergh said:
I just feel that allowing women to vote is much different than allowing same-sex couples to marry. There were many more women wanting to vote than same-sex couples wanting to marry.
Click to expand...

This is what you're reduced to? Should we not have given Native Americans citizenship rights in the 60's because there aren't very many of them?
 
Hardenbergh said:
I just feel that allowing women to vote is much different than allowing same-sex couples to marry. There were many more women wanting to vote than same-sex couples wanting to marry.
Click to expand...
So what percentage of the population has to ask for something before it becomes a right? Ten percent, twenty? What number should gay-marriage advocates be shooting for?
 
Hardenbergh said:
The majority of Americans are against same-sex marriage.
Click to expand...

Hey, look, a reason to vote!

And more to the point, STICK TO THE POINT.

Your response has nothing to do with your question about why people vote.

Your response shows a great lack of understanding of the principles of our republic.

The majority of Americans were against women voting, blacks getting rights, Jews being allowed in country clubs, women getting into college...

Were you reading ANYTHING? The majority does not rule in a republic. Arguments from tradition stink. A religious reason is not sufficient in a country which has repeatedly valued the separation of church and state.
 
I officially have steam coming out of my ears.

Hardenbergh, I strongly suggest you study American history, especially in relation to women's and minority rights. And after some of your comments, a good review of a high school civics text would also be a appropriate.
 
Hardenbergh said:
I just feel that allowing women to vote is much different than allowing same-sex couples to marry. There were many more women wanting to vote than same-sex couples wanting to marry.
Click to expand...
That may be, but before accepting this I'd like to see your sources for the numbers.

[edit] Though as others have pointed out, true or not it's irrelevant.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom