Questions about giving blood.

[Upchurch]

I like giving blood.

No, I don't. I hate giving blood, but I like feeling like I'm helping out. It's the Boy Scout in me. The reason I hate giving blood is because every time I do it I basically end up going into a mild form of shock.

I'm in fairly good physical condition and easily pass the pre-screening every time. The one thing I think could be related is that I have naturally low blood pressure. It's within normal, but always on the low end of normal.

My questions are (1) why does this happen and (2) how can I get it to frelling stop?

 

[athon]

Low blood pressure sounds like the cause to me. I've taken blood from big footballer types who pass out with as little as a 100 mls (although they could just be big sooks).

It's less the loss of blood and more the body's reaction to a very small drop in blood pressure. Blood pressure drops in the extremities in cases of mild shock and is conserved where it is needed; core and nervous system. That's why you feel a little woozy is that blood pressure increases slightly in your brain.

The only things I can think of (non-medication) is to drink plenty of water before hand and relax during the procedure. The second part is easier said than done, I know.

Personally I have no problems with giving a pint or two every now and then. IMO, you shouldn't make a withdrawal unless you've made a deposit.

Athon

 

[wilks]

I'd be really interested to know if this happened if you only 'thought' you were giving blood - if the needle was in but no blood was taken but you thought it was, for example. In other words is it a physiological or a psychological reaction?
There are plenty of healthy people at blood donor sessions who pass out before a needle has gone anywhere near them. And you get more 'faints' at university sessions than at prison sessions so I'm told.

 

[Pyrrho]

Mild shock? I gave blood once and gave the attendants their money's worth in terms of sheer panic. They got the pint out of me but it's clear to me that I shouldn't try it again. They'd have to strap me down. I tried to be calm and rational about the whole thing but...nope. As was explained to me, well, you *were* bleeding and you obviously have certain reactions to bleeding...

Short form: Yeah, I'm a wimp.

 

[Physiotherapist]

Why don't you consider donating platelets instead if your platelet count is hight enough? It takes longer and you need to go to a donor centre where they put you on a machine that separates out your platelets and gives you back your whole blood.

It really is worth doing, as it is not that many people that have a high enough platelet count to be able to do this and it does help all the leukaemia and myeloma patients who have low platelet counts.

 

[Upchurch]

I'd be really interested to know if this happened if you only 'thought' you were giving blood - if the needle was in but no blood was taken but you thought it was, for example. In other words is it a physiological or a psychological reaction?
There are plenty of healthy people at blood donor sessions who pass out before a needle has gone anywhere near them. And you get more 'faints' at university sessions than at prison sessions so I'm told.

Yeah, I thought of that possibility. It does make me nervous, but I use relaxation techniques.

The actual shock symptoms don't really hit me until near the very end until as late as 30 seconds after they're done. (Maybe I should have mentioned that?)

Mild shock? I gave blood once and gave the attendants their money's worth in terms of sheer panic.

The most unnerving experience I've had giving blood recently was when I stood up and the attendants and my wife started running towards me telling me to lay down NOW.

Why don't you consider donating platelets instead if your platelet count is hight enough? It takes longer and you need to go to a donor centre where they put you on a machine that separates out your platelets and gives you back your whole blood.

I've not tried it, but I've been told they have this new proceedure where they can take out twice as much blood but replace it with ...something. I didn't get the details, but I thought maybe the replacing fluid might keep my blood pressure up.

It's less the loss of blood and more the body's reaction to a very small drop in blood pressure. Blood pressure drops in the extremities in cases of mild shock and is conserved where it is needed; core and nervous system. That's why you feel a little woozy is that blood pressure increases slightly in your brain.

Does that still work with the fact that symptoms can appear very shortly after they're done?

The only things I can think of (non-medication) is to drink plenty of water before hand and relax during the procedure. The second part is easier said than done, I know.

What are the medical options?

 

[Mercutio]

It's the Boy Scout in me.

Isn't that illegal? Or is it only the other way around?

Yeah, I thought of that possibility. It does make me nervous, but I use relaxation techniques.

Depending on how much you want to work on it, take a look at "systematic desensitization"--there are some nice guides online--as a way of doing more with the relaxation than simply trying to relax. Treat this reaction sort of like a phobia, although it does not sound that bad.

The actual shock symptoms don't really hit me until near the very end until as late as 30 seconds after they're done. (Maybe I should have mentioned that?)

Nothing but a gut feeling on this, but this actually makes me more hopeful that you will be able to combat it.

The most unnerving experience I've had giving blood recently was when I stood up and the attendants and my wife started running towards me telling me to lay down NOW.

My brother passes out (or faints, as he says) every single time he gives blood. Or watches anyone else bleed, for that matter. He is a 5 gallon donor, though, or more; he just tells the vampires that he will be passing out, and not to worry.

I've not tried it, but I've been told they have this new proceedure where they can take out twice as much blood but replace it with ...something. I didn't get the details, but I thought maybe the replacing fluid might keep my blood pressure up.

I do this one. "Double reds" they call it--taking out 2 units of red cells. Basically, they take a pint, centrifuge it, pump the plasma and some saline back into you, take another pint, do the same. It can give you a very weird feeling as the plasma goes back in. I would not recommend it for someone who is uncomfortable with donating blood, for any reason. Especially Pyrrho. And it takes roughly twice as long to do.

Does that still work with the fact that symptoms can appear very shortly after they're done?

Again, not a doctor, but to me this sounds very amenable to behavioral treatment.

What are the medical options?

Try systematic desensitization first. There may or may not be a drug that could fix this, but I doubt you need one.

 

[Zep]

Here's a tip - get them to take the donation slower, perhaps take twice as long. There's usually a little tap of some sort on the drip line that adjusts the flow. The reason this helps is that the shock effect occurs much more violently if you experience a sudden loss of blood pressure.

This all depends on the definition of "sudden" for you, of course. I used to be able to donate fairly rapidly, but these days I have to take my time somewhat.

Also, in the case of a blood donation, your body is actually losing 450ml to 600ml of blood in only 10 to 15 minutes. If that happened as the result of a road accident, you would be awash in the stuff and in serious medical trouble - ambulance-worthy. So shock and your body's particular response to that is inevitable.

Athon mentioned the usual Red Cross routine here: They make you drink a bottle of water before you donate (about 500ml), then you have to sit quietly for at least 15 minutes afterwards AND have another decent-sized drink (tea, coffee, juice, water, etc). So before you donate you feel waterlogged, and yet afterwards you feel a bit thirsty! Of course, it's all to do with blood volume.

 

[Meffy]

My blood is useless, un-donatable. But I once took a friend to donate. Despite my not being bothered by the sight or thought of my own blood, or by "loose," un-contained blood of other people or animals, I became quite faint watching him give blood! The needle and the collection bag both made me queasy.

Both of us got a cookie and juice at the end. :-D The Red Cross people said not to worry, that my reaction wasn't all that unusual.

 

[HighRiser]

While I was in the Navy I was a member of The Walking Blood Bank onboard my ship. I reported to the medical department every three weeks or so to give a pint. The sensation of the blood flowing out of my arm makes me feel a little woozy and I always have a tingly feeling in the base of my spine as it's happening. Never passed out, but have felt I easily could.

 

[Boo]

To me it sounds like you are having a vagal reaction based on either needles or the blood. It's not really a physical cause as it is the brain checking out because it can't handle whatever the trigger is.

Desensitization like Merc suggested is probably the best way to overcome this, if not you will just have to learn to live with this. The other option is to remember to have a good meal about an hour before, drink juice when you're done and lay there for a bit longer before getting up. Move a little more slowly from laying down to standing, spending a minute or two laying down, then sitting and the finally standing.

It really is a form of shock you are experiencing, just as some people faint when frightened, it's the brains way of protecting the body from a perceived threat. There is no real rhyme or reason to it.


Good Luck.



Boo

 

[Terry]

Personally I have no problems with giving a pint or two every now and then. IMO, you shouldn't make a withdrawal unless you've made a deposit.

They won't take my blood. I guess I should just bleed to death if I have to have major surgery or whatever then.

 

[wilks]

The other option is to remember to have a good meal about an hour before, drink juice when you're done and lay there for a bit longer before getting up.

But not a fatty meal please or you end up with lots of grotty fat in the blood - yuk.
And yes, take lots of time over recovering. Don't sit up too soon, Have a nurse at your elbow when you do move, sit down and drink tea and eat biscuits (at least that's how it's done in the UK) for at least 20 minutes/half an hour after that.

 

[blutoski]

I like giving blood.

No, I don't. I hate giving blood, but I like feeling like I'm helping out. It's the Boy Scout in me. The reason I hate giving blood is because every time I do it I basically end up going into a mild form of shock.

I'm in fairly good physical condition and easily pass the pre-screening every time. The one thing I think could be related is that I have naturally low blood pressure. It's within normal, but always on the low end of normal.

My questions are (1) why does this happen and (2) how can I get it to frelling stop?

As people have said earlier, it's probably because of your existing low bp. It's unlikely you can get it to stop.

I have the same problem, but to an extreme: I'm not allowed to donate b/c my blood pressure is so low to begin with, that I always black out.

I compensate for this by registering as a bone marrow donor.

 

[athon]

They won't take my blood. I guess I should just bleed to death if I have to have major surgery or whatever then.

Yes. Yes you should. How can you be so inconsiderate as to make your blood unfit for human consumption? Er, use.

Ok, I'll donate for you Terry. But nobody else! Y'all can get your own blood.

Athon

 

[athon]

Does that still work with the fact that symptoms can appear very shortly after they're done?

Yep. People can pass out even without blood being taken. Typically it's heightened psychologically, so you're already stressed and prone to shock. Feeling the needle itself will just pump up the adrenalin.

What are the medical options?

Nothing you can take before giving blood, unfortunately. Tranquilizers would help calm you, while there are various drugs which will reduce the chance of shock by preventing an increase in core blood pressure and stuff.

Athon

 

[El Greco]

I remember once a new nurse who had turned yellow trying to stick the needle in my arm. I told her I could do it myself if it was too difficult for her

My bp is low as well (104/57 right now) but I've never felt anything during donations. Next time I think I'll pretend I'm fainting just to have a laugh with the nurses

 

[Vitnir]

When I have donated it feels like it's an even chance if it will work on the first try or if they will bust the blood vessel, miss it all together etc. Is that normal or do they send in trainees? This is at a university hospital. I have been told I don't have very good veins for donating.

 

[El Greco]

Yeah, that's what they'll always say when they bust it. What did you expect them to say, "I'm sorry, my mistake" ?

There are experienced nurses who can take blood from very difficult arms without problems. A newbie otoh, can manage to bust even vessels like mine which you can literally move around with your finger.

 

[Vitnir]

Well they say the veins are bad up front, "let's see if the other arm looks better first" And there I am trying to not get agitated since that will make the veins shrink and ignore the pain when they say "ups I missed, but don't worry, if I dig around a little more it will work". It's not for the money that's for sure, I get 3-4 euros each time.