Has Anyone Seen A Realistice Explanation For Free Fall Of The Towers?

[cloudshipsrule]

This is a quote from your concrete core site:

"The design was a "tube in a tube" construction where the steel reinforced, cast concrete interior tube, was surrounded with a structural steel framework configured as another tube with the load bearing capacity bias towards the perimeter wall with the core acting to reduce deformation of the steel structure maximizing its load bearing capacity. All steel structures with the proportions of the WTC towers have inherent problems with flex and torsion. Distribution of gravity loads was; perimeter walls 50%, interior core columns 30% core 20%. "

No mention of concrete core here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse_of_the_World_Trade_Center

To meet the challenges of wind load, gravity load and related architectural stresses, the WTC's structural engineers took a then-unusual approach in its construction: instead of employing a traditional grid-like plan with beams evenly spaced throughout a floor, the WTCs columns were grouped in the building's core and perimeter. The core of each tower was a rectangular area 87 by 133 feet (27 by 41 meter) and consisted of steel box columns running from the bedrock to the tops of the tower. The columns tapered to the top, where they transitioned to lightweight H-beams, but the exact dimensions are unknown as the blueprints are under the jurisdiction of the Port Authority and are not public domain. Each tower had 240 steel perimeter columns (from 2.5 inches thick at the bottom tapering to .25 inch at the top [6.3 to 0.6 cm]) placed 14 inches (36 cm) around the perimeter. This signature feature of columns grouped in the core and perimeter allowed large tracts of uninterrupted floorspace, a significant marketing feature for the towers.



No mention of concrete here:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/reynolds/reynolds12.html


Photos do not allow us to peer far into the interior of the building; in fact the hole is black, with no flames visible. We know that the structural core and its steel was incredibly strong (claimed 600% redundancy) making it unlikely that the core was "severely" damaged at impact. There were 47 core columns connected to each other by steel beams within an overall rectangular core floor area of approximately 87 feet x 137 feet (26.5 m x 41.8 m). Each column had a rectangular cross section of approximately 36" x 14" at the base (90 cm x 36 cm) with steel 4" thick all around (100 mm), tapering to ¼" (6 mm) thickness at the top. Each floor was also extremely strong (p. 26), a grid of steel, contrary to claims of a lightweight "truss" system.

No mention of concrete here:
http://www.ce.berkeley.edu/~astaneh/1-Publications/Astaneh-9ASEC-WTC Paper 2003.pdf

The structure of the towers was a new system made of three main elements: (a) an exterior
steel tube with closely spaced column to carry gravity and lateral load, (b) interior steel core
columns and beams to carry gravity only and; (c) the light weight concrete on steel deck floors
supported on simply supported steel truss joists. Figure 3 shows a typical framing plan for the
upper floors. Figure 4 shows cross section of a typical upper floor. The World Trade Center was
constructed using 3-story pre-fabricated welded units. Figure 5 shows the units used for exterior
tube. The 3-story units were bolted to each other at the site using end plate connection shown

 

[Manny]

So if he helped the NIST with their report, and he is the WTC engineer on record, then it must have just slipped his mind that the buildings actually had a concrete core... (unless you want to bust out the old standbye of "he's lying"...

Mr. Robinson was also on site while the WTC was being constructed, and even if the concrete core with the explosive rebar had been added without his knowledge he certainly would have come across it during construction.

So yes, Christopher, an obvious al Qaeda agent as proven earlier in this thread, is accusing Mr. Robinson of mass murder and treason and insurance fraud.

 

[Pardalis]

Mr. Robinson was also on site while the WTC was being constructed, and even if the concrete core with the explosive rebar had been added without his knowledge he certainly would have come across it during construction.

How many people were fooled during the 8 years it took to build the complex? Engeneers, architects, mohawk workers...

 

[Trifikas]

OH! I figured it out! that first picture on

http://concretecore.741.com/

Shows a picture of a reenforced concrete colum, with 4 Steel Beams Sticking out of it. You nut, that's not what FEMA is showing the entire CORE is made from, a single mass of concrete with 4 beams from it...It's just showing one of the supportting columns, What the 4th picture on that page points to as "Box Columns connecting steel frame to concrete core"

FEMA isn't claiming it's ONE SOLID PIECE...

 

[Christophera]

One of your sources is a UNC class project.

"The class divided into three teams. The first team completed a report
on the World Trade Center project. The second team compiled information
on the impacts that the project had on Lower Manhattan. The third team
examined the architectural, engineering, and real estate aspects of the
project. "

Selective uses of information use in attempt to dismiss evidence.



There is much more, better you insist, information possible. See it directly here, along with the product of students.

http://concretecore.741.com

You are asking people to ignore a ton of evidence not related, to some other evidence because students made a report from information available to them on the subject and that is on the page with a scan of a page of the publication of the Oxford Institute of Technology 1992. Or the evaluation by Domel, an enginner ph.d. There are more, plus photos of the actual concrete core and its features in various phases of the demolition.

That should help our rights and freedoms a lot.

And no one here has produced any image ever of the supposed steel core columns.

 

[Christophera]

OH! I figured it out! that first picture on

http://concretecore.741.com/

Shows a picture of a reenforced concrete colum, with 4 Steel Beams Sticking out of it. You nut, that's not what FEMA is showing the entire CORE is made from, a single mass of concrete with 4 beams from it...It's just showing one of the supportting columns, What the 4th picture on that page points to as "Box Columns connecting steel frame to concrete core"

FEMA isn't claiming it's ONE SOLID PIECE...

The first paragraph says.

Some in the UK still think the WTC tower core was built as shown below. Basically a pre-stressed concrete design. Yamasaki had reviewed the design, and found no contractor that could build a 1,300 foot column of that design. We all know the towers had their stairwells and elevators inside the core. There is no room for that in the core below.

You've read only the erroneous information of the image hosted at the BBC.

 

[Shrinker]

And no one here has produced any image ever of the supposed steel core columns.

Perhaps our words are too small. Maybe if we speak moonbat language...

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehost/36174478a63c5ee0e.jpg

 

[Christophera]

How many people were fooled during the 8 years it took to build the complex? Engeneers, architects, mohawk workers...

From the documentary and the sense of mystery surrounding the core, many people new something was up. For example: Revised core plans coming, not there until 2 days before work on the actual core begins. Then around the 3rd or 4th floor, forced evacations of workers by armed PA security just after sandblasting the floors prior to pouring concrete.

Phil Jayhan volenteered that he had heard that somewhere when I was posting at Let's Roll. The documentary showed workers jogging from floor to floor with security standing in the side hall next to stacks of 5 gallon buckets. Contractors almost sued to get wages while workers were displaced because the PA hadn't scheduled the evac's.

People knew somethign was up.

 

[bob_kark]

1. If you don't know how fast the WTC collapsed, how do you know it was "too fast?"

2. If the building is collapsing at free fall speed, why does the debris field overtake the collapse?

3. If there was a concrete core packed with C4, why is it still standing in your picture?

4. How would you time a collapse from a C4 demolition with a thermite demolition on the ground floor and have it look like a natural collapse?

5. If the Globalists, for lack of a better term, were so careful and thoughtful to plan the demolition of the WTC several decades in the past, why weren't they thoughtful enough to plant the thermite in the basement?

6. How are you able to claim that the structure as described in the NIST report is a sham if you never read the NIST report?

 

[Christophera]

Perhaps our words are too small. Maybe if we speak moonbat language...

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehost/36174478a63c5ee0e.jpg[/qimg]

Thank you for putting the arrows in EXACTLY the right places on the south tower which had 2 hallways crossing both axis of the core. It was not tapered either as it was engineered as a series of stacked cells.

The north tower on the right only had a single hallway on each floor crossing the core. We view the north (long) face of the WTC 1 core.

Look for the explanation of this image,

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/wtcsunriseshilouette.jpg

on this page.

http://concretecore.741.com

 

[senorpogo]

Selective uses of information use in attempt to dismiss evidence.

There is much more, better you insist, information possible. See it directly here, along with the product of students.

You claimed that your website contained credible sources.

I showed that four of them were not.
Will you now remove those non-credible and contradictory sources?

 

[Tricky]

From the documentary and the sense of mystery surrounding the core, many people new something was up. For example: Revised core plans coming, not there until 2 days before work on the actual core begins. Then around the 3rd or 4th floor, forced evacations of workers by armed PA security just after sandblasting the floors prior to pouring concrete.

Phil Jayhan volenteered that he had heard that somewhere when I was posting at Let's Roll. The documentary showed workers jogging from floor to floor with security standing in the side hall next to stacks of 5 gallon buckets. Contractors almost sued to get wages while workers were displaced because the PA hadn't scheduled the evac's.

People knew somethign was up.

"Many" huh? Can you give us a ballpark figure?

But how can you possibly suggest that of those "many" that not one has come forward, either wracked by guilt or just wanting to clear the board? Not one! This is a country where it is hard to keep anything secret, and if they do, the secret-keepers must be very few in number, humans being the capricious creatures they are. But what you are proposing is the greatest conspiracy every made and with 100% loyalty to the cause.

You know, just by the law of averages, some of those "many" secret keepers must have had loved ones who died in the event. So now we have a cabal of lots of people with hearts of stone.

Is there a Guiness World Record for paranoia?

 

[Belz...]

Well this thread is a cozy place, isn't it ?

But they could do if they wanted to, right?

Not if they don't have the skills.

The engineers believe FEMAs description of the structure and I know it was different so what the engineers have defined is in error.

You "know" ? How do you "know" ? Because of your own expertise in structual engineering ? Or because of your armchair analysis ?

No. I am aware from other sources exactly how the towers were designed and NIST is a waste of time. They do not explain free fall.

There was no free fall. They don't have to explain things that don't exist.

They do not explain how this happened twice and why the impact/fall sequence is backwards/ The wrong tower fell first if itwas a collapse.

You have noticed that the south tower was hit much lower than the north one, yes ?

 

[Belz...]

We do not need credentials to identify structural elements in a falling building.

You don't ? Well, why do all these OTHER structural engineers bother, then ?

Woah! I've wasted my whole adolescence on SCHOOLING, I guess.

Sorry, no time for another video of the towers. I'm fully satisfied as the visibility is not good enough to apply an accurate time. The fall was way too fast and it went to far down to be a collapse under any definition.

...but.... if the visibility precludes accurate timing, how can you say it fell too fast ??

First absolute. Towers built like those towers do not fall all the way to the ground. Maybe, under much more damage than 1 plane the top would fall off. Two towers doing it as they did identically FORGET IT. Never.

Compelling.

 

[XXX]

I found another forum that has a thread on this very topic...need 15 posts to post a link though...

 

[XXX]

There we go...

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread208023/pg1

I'm looking at it right now, might be some info in there that we don't know about yet.

 

[Belz...]

I've shown that there are more important issues and free fall is just a technicality that may be controlling and it may not. Most importantly is that they were way too close to free fall, and 2 towers fell almost identically when they had suffered very different damage.

Similar planes crashed into them in a similar way. What was so different ?

No, it might be, it might not. The important thing is that the issue remains undiminished because they fell WAY TOO fast.

Well, that does it for me. I've converted.

 

[Shrinker]

Thank you for putting the arrows in EXACTLY the right places on the south tower which had 2 hallways crossing both axis of the core. It was not tapered either as it was engineered as a series of stacked cells.

The north tower on the right only had a single hallway on each floor crossing the core. We view the north (long) face of the WTC 1 core.

Look for the explanation of this image,

http://algoxy.com/psych/images/wtcsunriseshilouette.jpg

on this page.

http://concretecore.741.com

And thank you for finally responding to a question. I've seen your diagram. No matter what side you view your tower from, every other floor would appear to have a completely solid core, becuase you'd be viewing down the wrong axis. In both photos all the floors have a great amount of daylight visible through them, and almost all have an identical configuration to the floor directly above and below. There is no alternating axis. In the picture I edited, there is more daylight than solid structure. That is not one hallway through a thick concrete core, it is open space punctuated by narrow supports.

Edit to add: your sunset picture seems to show a more solid core than the black and white one. We've already seen evidence that was just drywall, not concrete.

 

[Belz...]

Well tim, the end of the fall is vague, so there you have it. The exact time is just not worth discussing

"I don't know what I'm talking about, but that's not important."

I think that we are generally past that in the real world. It is well established that they fell too fast for a collapse, even a normal controlled demolition.

For EVEN a normal controlled demolition ? What, were they desintegrated by aliens ?

What is more important is that they fell all the way to the ground identically. Collapses do not happen like that. No steel building has ever collapsed.

Expected. Yes they do. It was a precedent.

It does not show steel core columns and that is what NIST says stood

I thought you said NIST denied the presence of the core ?

Covering for the murderers of 3000 Americans is not easy.

Leave it to a supporter of the murderers of Americans to demand an exact answer which cannot be obtained.

You have no support for the towers NIST said stood. Meaning you are supporting a lie to protect the real murderers.

By doing so he supports the lies that the real murderers hide behind.

What about our rights and freedoms Timmy?

Appeal to sentiments will not work here. Show the damn evidence.

Why do I bother, anyway ?

and will not return them. The picture is an absolute. If you cannot use it, that is your problem.

"I know something you don't"

 

[Christophera]

1. If you don't know how fast the WTC collapsed, how do you know it was "too fast?"

2. If the building is collapsing at free fall speed, why does the debris field overtake the collapse?

The building is descending from the top height, at whatever height, downwards. The building behind the debris has not yet begun to fall. It is quite incredible that you reasonably need that explained.

3. If there was a concrete core packed with C4, why is it still standing in your picture?

There was a digital delay system. All timers triggered by one security phone line on each floor with other detonation delay systems for the core. The core walls were very thick down low and quite a bit of work was requried to open the inspection ports and install detonators. the intitiation system would be different. Gas flame intiation tube system rather than electric caps. Electric's are too unstable over time.
Recall that tower workers immediately following the new lease had problems getting to jobs on lower floors because of "extensive elevator maintenance. The later power down got all the floors set with electric caps 3 days prior to 9-11. The lower core (heavily loaded with C4 coated bar) would have thrown the surrounding steel outward if the steel wasn't dropped first by thermite at the base and the,

http://algoxy.com/psych/9-11scenario.html#anchor1233383

column cutting system built into the floors. Yea, I know, very hard to beleive that such was built in, but from a position of some experience and much study, inquiry of experts, etc. before 9-11, there is no other way to get it done as we saw and see, example: square cut columns.

4. How would you time a collapse from a C4 demolition with a thermite demolition on the ground floor and have it look like a natural collapse?

Above I explain the delayed detonations happening above ground. The thermite was installed in 1993 after the basement bombing. That recent trial of a terrorist brought out that the FBI knew and guided the terrorist to place the van in the basement with explosives in it (away from the core). Astounding, more astounding that the information actually is out there. I wish I had links but you should be able to find it.

5. If the Globalists, for lack of a better term, were so careful and thoughtful to plan the demolition of the WTC several decades in the past, why weren't they thoughtful enough to plant the thermite in the basement?

Perhaps opportunities in the middle east had not developed to the point where a massive ruse was planned. Basically without opening the inspection ports and severing the C4 layer on the bar, you can't stop the whole tower going off at once like a firecracker. In answer #3 I describe that in sequence. If the basement van had been against the core it might have done the firecracker.

6. How are you able to claim that the structure as described in the NIST report is a sham if you never read the NIST report?

The NIST report uses the FEMA WTC report as a basis for it's structural configuration analyzed. This is probably the BEST documentation in existence for the core from official sources.

http://algoxy.com/psych/psyimages/femacore.gif

I saw the 1990 documentary and remember it very well. I've been a welder for 30 years and a surveyor for 20 having laid out a number of steel and concrete structures and did some drilling and blasting. I have the basic experience to be able to see how this demo was done. I'm just reverse engineering by the seat of my pants because all the data is so scattered and sparse that it needs to be assembled once, first, into a scenario that explains the event so a more refined analysis can be done. The documentary, which I understood very well, gave me the information on the towers that is needed to make that scenario work.

That is all I've done and it's so damm feasible that the few people I've mentioned it to who actually have similar experience, engineers, basically took a psychological crap because it adequately explained the entire Twin tower event.