Iraqis shot 'for wearing shorts'

Not that unbelievable. They have a fundamentalist Shiite government, dedicated to making their interpretation of Islam the law of the land, not unlike what they have in Iran. They aren't the most open minded lot.

Let Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom ring. yeah.
 
Renfield said:
Not that unbelievable. They have a fundamentalist Shiite government, dedicated to making their interpretation of Islam the law of the land, not unlike what they have in Iran. They aren't the most open minded lot.

Let Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom ring. yeah.
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I missed the part in the article that this was a government action.
 
I missed the part in my post where I said that the government did this directly.

No, but they have been turning a blind eye to this kind of thing. It doesn't surprise me much that its come to this.
 
El Greco said:
Article

Unbelievable. Freaking unbelievable :( :mad:
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What I find more unbelievable is that 15 olympic level taekwondo practicioners were kidnapped and haven't kicked the crap out of their kidnappers by now.

Maybe thaiboxerken isn't that far off base after all.
 
rocketdodger said:
What I find more unbelievable is that 15 olympic level taekwondo practicioners were kidnapped and haven't kicked the crap out of their kidnappers by now.

Maybe thaiboxerken isn't that far off base after all.
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Outside of hollywood: Guns > Martial Arts.
 
Grammatron said:
Outside of hollywood: Guns > Martial Arts.
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This is not true at all. Within striking range a trained opponent can attack faster than anyone can pull a trigger, it is a biological fact. Add to this the fact that they are most likely being held inside a structure with rooms and close quarters, and I would say the martial artists would have an overwhelming advantage, especially considering the fact that they can just disarm the kidnappers and use their guns against them.

I happen to think that the reason they have not freed themselves is

1) They are trained for sport TKD which admittedly and unfortunately will not help them much in a real situation -- I think if it was 15 krav maga experts things would turn out very different.

2) They all speak arabic and are probably on good terms with the terrorists, who only seem to be demanding money. It is probably one of those "we don't want to hurt you, we just want the money, don't cause trouble and you will be fine" situations. In contrast, if it was 15 Israeli olympic martial artists you can bet they would be fighting for their lives.
 
Witnesses said the three were dressed in shorts and were killed days after militants issued a warning forbidding the wearing of shorts.

Other Iraqi athletes have been targeted in recent incidents.
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We must not abandon these people to this kind of insane zealotry.
 
I wonder if the US Mainstream media will pick up on this story? Of course, they (the MSM) don't want to be accused of only publishing "bad news" which as we all know helps the insurgency.

Additionally, I'm certain that this is an extremely isolated and rare incident. Otherwise, wouldn't we (Americans) have already heard about this sort of thing from Pentagon spokesman?
 
rocketdodger said:
This is not true at all. Within striking range a trained opponent can attack faster than anyone can pull a trigger, it is a biological fact.
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So you can move your fist over a distance of several feet faster than I can move my finger one inch? Sorry, doesn't work that way.

In close enough quarters, aiming a gun can become a serious problem. But it's aiming the gun which takes time, not pulling the trigger. And that's not how this stuff happens anyways. They point their guns at you from more than arms length away, and if you don't surrender, they kill you. Once you surrender, they tie you up. And no amount of martial arts is going to save you. Best case scenario you might be able to break someone's nose before they cap you, but that won't be much consolation.
 
joe1347 said:
Additionally, I'm certain that this is an extremely isolated and rare incident. Otherwise, wouldn't we (Americans) have already heard about this sort of thing from Pentagon spokesman?
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Well, let's think about that for a moment: when is the last time you actually listened to a Pentagon briefing directly, rather than just reading press accounts of a press briefing? I don't think most people do - it's not like the Pentagon has a TV network of their own the public can tune into. And if you haven't done so on a regular basis, how would you know what subject matter they do or don't typically cover?
 
rocketdodger said:
This is not true at all. Within striking range a trained opponent can attack faster than anyone can pull a trigger, it is a biological fact. Add to this the fact that they are most likely being held inside a structure with rooms and close quarters, and I would say the martial artists would have an overwhelming advantage, especially considering the fact that they can just disarm the kidnappers and use their guns against them.

I happen to think that the reason they have not freed themselves is

1) They are trained for sport TKD which admittedly and unfortunately will not help them much in a real situation -- I think if it was 15 krav maga experts things would turn out very different.

2) They all speak arabic and are probably on good terms with the terrorists, who only seem to be demanding money. It is probably one of those "we don't want to hurt you, we just want the money, don't cause trouble and you will be fine" situations. In contrast, if it was 15 Israeli olympic martial artists you can bet they would be fighting for their lives.
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Before you guys respond to this, please remember who you're talking to.
 
rocketdodger said:
This is not true at all. Within striking range a trained opponent can attack faster than anyone can pull a trigger, it is a biological fact. Add to this the fact that they are most likely being held inside a structure with rooms and close quarters, and I would say the martial artists would have an overwhelming advantage, especially considering the fact that they can just disarm the kidnappers and use their guns against them..
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You're assuming the hostage is in a clear state of mind.

You're assuming we're talking about ONE gun being trained on them.
 
Ziggurat said:
Well, let's think about that for a moment: when is the last time you actually listened to a Pentagon briefing directly, rather than just reading press accounts of a press briefing? I don't think most people do - it's not like the Pentagon has a TV network of their own the public can tune into. And if you haven't done so on a regular basis, how would you know what subject matter they do or don't typically cover?
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I took your advice and checked what was posted on pentagon.gov today. Looks like mostly optimistic news to me - plus cutesy photo ops (see link below). With a war going on - doesn't Rumsfeld have better things to do today than get an award from the Boy Scouts?

http://www.pentagon.gov/photos/May2006/060526-N-0696M-197.html
 
Grammatron said:
Outside of hollywood: Guns > Martial Arts.
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The article doesn't say if the kidnappers used guns or not. Being that they are TKD people, the kidnappers probably used a method that TKD people can't defend against.......the grab.
 
thaiboxerken said:
The article doesn't say if the kidnappers used guns or not. Being that they are TKD people, the kidnappers probably used a method that TKD people can't defend against.......the grab.
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Yep, that's what happened, they simultaneously gripped 15 martial arts experts and wrestled them into submission. After all, just pointing a gun at them, from say 5 meters away, and say "do as we say or die" would be like unsporting. You're no doubt correct that Taikwondo is less useful in a real fight than say Thai-boxing, but guns trump both.
 
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Ziggurat said:
So you can move your fist over a distance of several feet faster than I can move my finger one inch? Sorry, doesn't work that way.
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Well you have to take reaction time into account. I wouldn't exclude the possibility that a trained martial artist could move his fist several feet before I could react. Of course this assumes that the kidnappers don't keep their distance.
 
thaiboxerken said:
The article doesn't say if the kidnappers used guns or not. Being that they are TKD people, the kidnappers probably used a method that TKD people can't defend against.......the grab.
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And what about the jump off of a 10 story building method?
 
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