Why don't CTers lose credibility?

[Yahzi]

The main problem I see with them is that they start with the conclusion that an event happened, and then work backwards to find the evidence.

And why not? It's the only technique they've ever used for anything. Culture has carefully arragned their lives and their beliefs so it works for the 99% that matters and keeps us driving on the right side of the street. So you can't blame them for doing exactly what they were taught from birth.

We can't expect people to disbelieve in ghosts as long as the belief in spirits is considered unassailable.

Also, as has been pointed out, CTers provide a story. Have you looked at prime-time lately? All we get anymore are cop shows and reality tv. The CTers come off as positively creative compared to that.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

And why not? It's the only technique they've ever used for anything. Culture has carefully arragned their lives and their beliefs so it works for the 99% that matters and keeps us driving on the right side of the street. So you can't blame them for doing exactly what they were taught from birth.

We can't expect people to disbelieve in ghosts as long as the belief in spirits is considered unassailable.

Also, as has been pointed out, CTers provide a story. Have you looked at prime-time lately? All we get anymore are cop shows and reality tv. The CTers come off as positively creative compared to that.

Your post touches on a lament voiced by many a great mind (Sagan jumps to the top of my memory queue). The US educational system is failing miserably at teaching people how to Think.

 

[Polaris]

P.S. This is coming from someone that once bought into the JFK conspiracy to the point of taking a trip to Texas to visit the site of the murder and talk to some of the people that witnessed it.

When you finally get up to the sixth floor, and you see where the motorcade would have been relative to where Oswald was, and you watch the Zapruder Film (including the low speed at which the limousine was travelling), Oswald's marksmanship no longer seems so impossibly difficult - especially when you consider that he had a scope.

 

[HidariMak]

Sadly though, it seems that it's more a matter of refusing to think, and refusing to see the obvious even when it's pointed out to them. Isn't it dramatic enough that a disturbed individual ended the life of a beloved acting US president? Isn't it dramatic enough that NASA was able to send people to set foot on the moon back in 1969? Isn't it dramatic enough that 19 religious fanatics commited an act so horrible as to be unimaginable to most of us before it actually happened?

Primetime TV shows that the majority of the population is most relaxed with their brains in neutral, so they can be forgiven for not questioning a lot of the idiocy which gets presented. Even normally sane, rational, intelligent people may not notice the absurdity of some of these claims at first. But when the facts are presented, to the obvious, blatant, Daffy Duck in a tutu levels of absurdity that they are, and people insist on abandoning the proven and rational realities that's being given directly to them, it's stunning.

Yeah, I know that some books were published which goes into the psychology of this stupidity. Perhaps one of these days I'll find the time to actually check one of them out. (It's not that the books aren't worth my time, just that I have precious little these days.)

 

[Belz...]

Not only do they like to believe they know things other people don't, but that they're not sheeps easily fooled by "the establishment". In addition, conspirations and the paranormal are the only field where ignoramusses can pass for experts to the eyes of the gullible. As someone said, it's easier to become a guru than a Nobel laureate.

Flo, your French is showing.

 

[Flo]

Flo, your French is showing.

Merde ! And me that was sure everybody was fooled by my perfect mastery of ze English language !


(Note for tonight: "conspiracy" to be written down 20 times in the secret notebook ..... )

 

[Hellbound]

Just as a notice, National Geographic channel showed an episode of their "Seconds from Disaster" show last night (US, Dish Network) that dealt with Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon. Very interesting, as they wen into detail on how the plane impacted (wing parts were found buried in the dirt just outside the building, where the left wing hit the ground almost simultaneously with the plane impact), showed where the right wing impacted the outer wall, described the structural features of the building that kept it standing for the 20 minutes it did and accurately explained the collapse, etc, etc, etc.

I thought it was a very good study of the incident. They usually rerun these shows, so if anyone is interested check your local listings

 

[kookbreaker]

Just as a notice, National Geographic channel showed an episode of their "Seconds from Disaster" show last night (US, Dish Network) that dealt with Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon. Very interesting, as they wen into detail on how the plane impacted (wing parts were found buried in the dirt just outside the building, where the left wing hit the ground almost simultaneously with the plane impact), showed where the right wing impacted the outer wall, described the structural features of the building that kept it standing for the 20 minutes it did and accurately explained the collapse, etc, etc, etc.

I thought it was a very good study of the incident. They usually rerun these shows, so if anyone is interested check your local listings

See! National Geographic is the head of the media conspiracy!

Oww! Stop hitting!

 

[gfunkusarelius]

Just as a notice, National Geographic channel showed an episode of their "Seconds from Disaster" show last night (US, Dish Network) that dealt with Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon. Very interesting, as they wen into detail on how the plane impacted (wing parts were found buried in the dirt just outside the building, where the left wing hit the ground almost simultaneously with the plane impact), showed where the right wing impacted the outer wall, described the structural features of the building that kept it standing for the 20 minutes it did and accurately explained the collapse, etc, etc, etc.

I thought it was a very good study of the incident. They usually rerun these shows, so if anyone is interested check your local listings

oh crikey, be careful or this will turn into another l00se ch@n8e thread!!! (typed silly so people dont find this link when searching, thus turning my email into a self-fulfilling prophecy)

 

[pgwenthold]

When you finally get up to the sixth floor, and you see where the motorcade would have been relative to where Oswald was, and you watch the Zapruder Film (including the low speed at which the limousine was travelling), Oswald's marksmanship no longer seems so impossibly difficult - especially when you consider that he had a scope.

Actually, the most important thing to remember about Oswald's markmanship is that what he did was NOT all that successful from a marksmanship standpoint. It took him 3 shots to hit the mark he was aiming for. Why 3? Because he was successful in the third shot. If he had missed, there were probably more bullets in the rifle for him to try again.

It's not like he was trying to hit both JFK and Connally with the second shot. In that shot, he got close to the target, but didn't hit it.

Even if he only had a 20% chance of hitting his target in any shot, that means that he would have a 50% chance of hitting it at least once in three shots. And when you are assassinating the president, it only takes one.

 

[epepke]

Heard on an episode of Quantum Leap, said by Al: "It's more comforting to believe in plots, because if Kennedy could be killed that easily by one sicko, what hope is there for the rest of us?"

 

[Orb]

I was actually taught in HIGH SCHOOL that the JFK assassination CT was true. Honest to FSM. I took an elective course on the 60's, and the teacher spent a quarter of the semester discussing it. Like most kids, I just took is as fact. Imagine my disappointment when I found out I was lied to at school by a teacher I really liked. *Sigh*.

 

[Polaris]

I was actually taught in HIGH SCHOOL that the JFK assassination CT was true. Honest to FSM. I took an elective course on the 60's, and the teacher spent a quarter of the semester discussing it. Like most kids, I just took is as fact. Imagine my disappointment when I found out I was lied to at school by a teacher I really liked. *Sigh*.

If I believed everything I was taught in high school, I'd believe the following:

1.) German was 1 vote away from being the official American language.

2.) Reagan was actually killed by Hinckley and was replaced by a double to keep up appearances.

3.) Americans used bigger ammo than the Axis did in WW2 so they could load captured ammo into their small arms.

4.) The Civil War was fought to end slavery.

5.) The Lusitania was why America got into WW1.

6.) That the T-34 was the best tank not only of WW2 (actually true) but could still hold its own today (by "today" I mean 1994).

Etc... If any more come to me I'll post them.

 

[fuelair]

If I believed everything I was taught in high school, I'd believe the following:

As a teacher who gets mad when he locates minor errors in the textbook (usually science textbooks, I hate to admit) , I apologise for the effects of the teachers like that - to me they are not teachers and need to be eliminated from the field ( I tend to choose my words carefully, if you get what I mean and I think you do). Opinions may well be asked for - and less often given - but they should ALWAYS be identified as opinions - especially if they are counter to currently established fact/theory.

 

[Orb]

I think I remember my social studies teacher telling the "ring around the rosie" myth too.
But the JFK one really stung hard. I felt totally betrayed because I respected the teacher so much. She was super charismatic and I hung on her every word. 14 years later I still remember her lectures. When I learned it was bunk, I had one of those "I need to sit down" moments and it still pains me to think about it.
I learned a hard lesson, but at least I think I'm a better person for it.
Sorry for the derail.

 

[Belz...]

Merde ! And me that was sure everybody was fooled by my perfect mastery of ze English language !


(Note for tonight: "conspiracy" to be written down 20 times in the secret notebook ..... )

Personally I've got the inverse problem. My second language, English, is starting to affect my French. Damn them all !!

 

[blutoski]

As a teacher who gets mad when he locates minor errors in the textbook (usually science textbooks, I hate to admit) , I apologise for the effects of the teachers like that - to me they are not teachers and need to be eliminated from the field ( I tend to choose my words carefully, if you get what I mean and I think you do). Opinions may well be asked for - and less often given - but they should ALWAYS be identified as opinions - especially if they are counter to currently established fact/theory.

Are you aware of the Textbook League? (TTL)

http://www.textbookleague.org

They've been involved in skepticism and education for at least a decade. Based in California, but their target textbooks usually apply inother regions, and their identified errors are frequently found in syllabuses (syllabi?) all over the world.

 

[Polaris]

I think I remember my social studies teacher telling the "ring around the rosie" myth too.
But the JFK one really stung hard. I felt totally betrayed because I respected the teacher so much. She was super charismatic and I hung on her every word. 14 years later I still remember her lectures. When I learned it was bunk, I had one of those "I need to sit down" moments and it still pains me to think about it.
I learned a hard lesson, but at least I think I'm a better person for it.
Sorry for the derail.

The Ring Around the Rosie myth was stated as fact by none-other than Sam Waterston on none-other than The History Channel between shows for years.

I'm sure if I thought hard enough about it I'd find tons of Civil War (being in the eastern Panhandle of West Virginia, we got the hint that if we didn't love the Civil War we were going to Hell - half the year of every history class was Civil War stuff) and Indian mythology in my high school history classes.

 

[fuelair]

Textbook League

Are you aware of the Textbook League? (TTL)

http://www.textbookleague.org

They've been involved in skepticism and education for at least a decade. Based in California, but their target textbooks usually apply inother regions, and their identified errors are frequently found in syllabuses (syllabi?) all over the world.

No, Dogpile had not led me their way - buy I have seen several of the stories that showed up when I went to their site. I will add them to favorites!!

Thank you kindly for the information!!

 

[Soapy Sam]

Another of the same-

Why are some memes so effective at parasitising human minds?