Mentally ill troops forced into combat

[pipelineaudio]

Either you are trying to discredit him as a debate tactic, which is deplorable, or you are issuing a non-sequitor insult, which is deplorable. Making speculative disparaging remarks about other posters when they are trying to engage in a legitimate debate with you is deplorable and shows the world what you cannot comport yourself in a reasonable manner.

ad hominem calling ad hominem on him like that

shame on you

 

[Rob Lister]

So, the first day you decided that it wasn't for you.. but you retired from it. But you understood it on day one? That sounds a bit contradictory to me.



Actually, it was around year 5, AFTER I already enlisted that I started to figure it out. That was about the time I went to my first ship. Before that, most of my time was spent at different schools.



That I hadn't spent much time on a ship.

Oh bologna. What a fraud you are. It took me ONE day to realize that I had bitten off more than I wanted to chew, not that it wasn't for me. Guess what...I overcame. You CLAIM to have overcome for SIX years and then RE-ENLISTED for another four. I call BS. I could be wrong but I don't think you've done a day in the service. Read yourself. You're pitiful. You claim to have served six years and not figured it out. That initial six-year enlistment would guarantee you E4 at least. At the end of 10 years you would be at least an E6 or E7. Quite a chuck of change for a "slave".

So, you got a set of orders that didn't suit your fancy? Too damn bad. That's the military. Adapt and Overcome, you pussy. Don't like it? don't enlist for six and certainly don't re-enlist for four more. What a friggen hypocrite.

I frankly don't believe you ever served a day...at least not an honorable one.

Please do not engage in name calling.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Lisa Simpson

 

[thaiboxerken]

It took me ONE day to realize that I had bitten off more than I wanted to chew, not that it wasn't for me.

What's the difference between realizing that you can't handle it and that it isn't for you?

You CLAIM to have overcome for SIX years and then RE-ENLISTED for another four. I call BS. I could be wrong but I don't think you've done a day in the service.

You are wrong. The Nuclear Program in the Navy requires a 6 year enlistment because of the extensive training program that keeps the enlistee from going out to sea for the first 2 years, at least, of the enlistment. We are given the chance to re-enlist long before the initial 6 is done, in fact, we're enticed to stay in with a bonus program which consists of cash (50K for me) and an automatic upgrade to E-5, if one isn't already there. They call that a STAR re-enlistment. I don't know if the Nuclear program still has it.

Quite a chuck of change for a "slave".

Yes, the pay can be decent, but it's not something that they have to give out. They tried to discourage me from getting out of the Navy, telling me that I wouldn't make double salary like many people believe. They were correct, I made close to triple the salary my first year out.

So, you got a set of orders that didn't suit your fancy? Too damn bad. That's the military.

That's what I'm saying. It is the military, and like slave, you do your duty or face the consequences. Like a slave, if you fail to do your duty, you can be executed, in certain situations.

Adapt and Overcome, you pussy. Don't like it? don't enlist for six and certainly don't re-enlist for four more. What a friggen hypocrite.

It was a good time until about the 5 year point, then I decided that my re-enlistment was a bad choice. That was when I did my first 6 month deployment. Oh well, it was my mistake. I still hate the military.

I frankly don't believe you ever served a day...at least not an honorable one.

Yet, I was discharged at 10 years with honor. One can actually change their mind about the military during their term. I knew quite a few people that loved the military until a certain point, then they stay in just for the retirement. The military policies change enough that some people can't stand it anymore. Others become disillusioned and start to not like military life. Some people have personal problems, and that's when they realize the military cares little about personal problems. Not everyone in the military likes it, not all retirees like the military that they retire from. It doesn't make them "pussies". Some people complain and still do their jobs and do them well.

 

[Tricky]

Rob, you're beginning to look pretty bad here, what with abusing a veteran who served with honor, even if he no longer agrees with the military. One would almost think that you only support veterans who agree with you.

And chill. You aren't impressing anyone with your command of juvenile insults.

By the way, that was me who reported you, not TBK, so if you have any complaints about that, I'm your man.

 

[thaiboxerken]

A bitching sailor is a happy sailor.

 

[thaiboxerken]

For some reason, Robby stopped posting in this thread. I wonder why.

 

[bigred]

I was in the military for 10 years and quit. I'm going to voice my opinions of the military based on that experience. Thank you.

NOW you tell us. sheesh

It should also be noted that each branch of service is very distinct in many ways. Based on what I know of the Marines and Army, I'm much less surprised (and more agreeable) re. your "slavery" comment. PS and oh btw my hat is off to you, esp. as a Marine. Being an AF weenie, I didn't go through a "real" boot camp. Getting thru that alone gets a nod of respect.

I am not suited for it, you are correct. Not after I learned the hard way what it was about. I'll tell other people the realities so they don't make the same mistake.

That's cool, but again they are just that: YOUR realities. They are not necessarily indicative of what someone joining up - even if they join the Army or USMC - can expect. Largely a question of degree I think (like most if not all things in life).

I know we need a military, I don't think that the government treats it's military people well enough. I don't agree that enlisted people should become property.

We probably agree more than you might suspect. But again I think it's much worse for the USMC and/or Army...the AF gets razzed a lot by the other services for being too soft/etc and not without some truth, but the flip side to that is that they treat their people MUCH better.

 

[bigred]

But it is. You lose rights, you become property and they can keep you in the military indefinitely. Maybe you haven't heard of "stop-loss".

First off, you don't lose ALL rights. Don't let your sour grapes (which may or may not be justified, btw, but not the point) discolor your judgement here.

Re. "stop loss," you're right, but that is an extreme and infrequent situation and should be kept in mind as such.

 

[bigred]

Point one: Enlisting in the military can be compared to slavery, although it is not identical. You are expected to follow orders without question. That is a bit like slavery. You cannot just quit. That is a bit like slavery. It is unlike slavery in that you sign an agreement to join, but unlike many business agreements, it cannot be renegotiated.

Key words: "a bit" like slavery. That was not the msg being conveyed.

Point two: The time can be indefinite.

Technically true but also highly misleading...

Although you are essentially "on call" for some period after your active service is complete, you are not paid full wages for that time unless you are active, making it difficult to plan a career. You don't know whether or not you will be called back, so that is indefinite. "Indefinite" is not the same as "endless"..

Sorry, BS. Of course there are exceptions, but in most cases by far the odds of you being called up while on Inactive Reserve are very slim. You most certainly can and should plan your career after separation.

Point three: As to TBK, he has served in the military, so he has the credentials to make a knowledgable commentary on his experience there and on the military in general.

Which again wasn't known at the time. I'm not beating that dead horse any more...

 

[ImaginalDisc]

NOW you tell us. sheesh

I'm sure he doesn't need me to rush to his aid, but I'd like to point out that he didn't have to tell you anything about himself. If you cannot entertain a dissenting opinion from someone unless they happen to be ex-military, white, black, female, or some other demographic then that makes you an intolerant scumbag.

 

[jj]

You'll excuse me if I don't believe it.

You seem to lack even the basic understanding of the military. I find it difficult to believe you'd last ten months, much less ten years. That you lasted ten years (which requires AT LEAST one RE-enlistment), make me all the more skeptical of your claim.

So, you joined, learned for real what it was about, then RE-enlisted (making all your objections to it humorous, or...

You've never put your foot in a military boot.

Do you have some solid evidence, or will you be apologizing soon?

 

[jj]

Rob, you're beginning to look pretty bad here, what with abusing a veteran who served with honor, even if he no longer agrees with the military. One would almost think that you only support veterans who agree with you.

And chill. You aren't impressing anyone with your command of juvenile insults.

By the way, that was me who reported you, not TBK, so if you have any complaints about that, I'm your man.

It's not the first time he's just up and called somebody a liar on something that is far from an extraordinary claim, you know.

 

[jj]

From my dim memories of the Vietnam days, what happens is that while a guy is over fighting for his country, his wife or girlfriend gets bored and lonely and starts sleeping with the hippy bum next door. War doesn't cause suicide at anywhere near the rate that women do.

Wow, man, the ghost of Jedi Knight and "American"...

 

[thaiboxerken]

I'm sure he doesn't need me to rush to his aid, but I'd like to point out that he didn't have to tell you anything about himself.

That is exactly the case. The merits of the arguments and position are all that should matter, not the merit of the speaker.

 

[bigred]

I'm sure he doesn't need me to rush to his aid, but I'd like to point out that he didn't have to tell you anything about himself. If you cannot entertain a dissenting opinion from someone unless they happen to be ex-military, white, black, female, or some other demographic then that makes you an intolerant scumbag.

Wow more hypocritical gibberish from you, how shocking.

Thx for all your worthy contributions to the discussion. Once again, they speak volumes.

 

[bigred]

That is exactly the case. The merits of the arguments and position are all that should matter, not the merit of the speaker.

True.

Unfortunately, until you told us of your 1st-hand experience, your arguments had no merit as you didn't back them up with anything whatsoever.

 

[Rob Lister]

True.

Unfortunately, until you told us of your 1st-hand experience, your arguments had no merit as you didn't back them up with anything whatsoever.

And I choose not to believe his first-hand experience. I'd rather believe him a liar than that specific sort of hypocrite. It's the lesser of the two evils.

It's one or the other, for the reasons I've already stated. It appears he liked it fine until ordered to a place he didn't want to go. Go figure.

He knew the deal after week one. He certainly knew it after year six. Yet he signed up for more. Pfffft - spit.

 

[Tricky]

And I choose not to believe his first-hand experience. I'd rather believe him a liar than that specific sort of hypocrite. It's the lesser of the two evils.

Certainly you can choose to believe whatever is more comfortable for you. Want to buy some healing magnets?

 

[thaiboxerken]

It appears he liked it fine until ordered to a place he didn't want to go. Go figure.

I'm sure there were slaves that were treated well by their masters as well, and that they didn't have a problem being slaves. It simply took a few bad assignments and poor leaders to see that I was a slave.

 

[Huntster]

.....The merits of the arguments and position are all that should matter, not the merit of the speaker.

In either case, please see my sig lines.........................