Mentally ill troops forced into combat

[Rob Lister]

The same can be said to victims of psychics, mediums and other con-artists. I'm simply voicing the fact that enlisting in the military is volunteering for slavery for an indefinite period of time.

Then don't join thai. If that's the way you feel, stay far away and hope they don't re-institute the draft. If they do, it's because they need cannon fodder. Guess who gets to be that? You're not suit for it and nobody is forcing you to join -- to the contrary, I'm recommending you don't.

Those who do join will sacrifice for you, proudly. You should take real comfort in that. You appear only to take smug comfort in it.

 

[bigred]

I'm going to use small words, so you understand..

GASP

ad hominem! ad hominem! ad hominem! ad hominem! ad hominem! ad hominem! ad hominem! ad hominem! ad hominem! ad hominem! ad hominem! ad hominem! ad hominem! ad hominem! ad hominem! ad hominem! ad hominem! ad hominem! ad hominem! ad hominem! ad hominem! ad hominem! ad hominem! ad hominem! ad hominem!

And last but not least:

ad hominem!

All that and hypocritical to boot. Surprise surprise.


Well at least you got this right:

When you dismiss another person during a debate by making speculative comments about them personnaly that is an "ad hominem" logical fallacy. Look it up.

PS and FYI, the word is spelled "personally."

Clearly you should stick to using even smaller words.

 

[bigred]

The same can be said to victims of psychics, mediums and other con-artists. I'm simply voicing the opinion that enlisting in the military is volunteering for slavery for an indefinite period of time.

Fixed.

To your credit your replies are more rational and worthwhile than those trying to defend you (you score big points alone for avoiding the term "ad hominem"), but frankly you've no idea what you're talking about. Enslisting in the military (American at least) is nothing at all like slavery and it is not even for an indefinite period of time.

If you insist on holding this opinion, please back it up with some evidence, experience....something. Thx

 

[Rob Lister]

Enslisting in the military (American at least) is...not even for an indefinite period of time.

Actually, in that he was correct. The enlistment contract makes it clear that your discharge is 'at the convenience of the department of defense'. So you (and others) know, extension past EAOS results in a substantial payment to the enlistee, but that is neither here nor there. All enlistments really ARE for an indefinite period of time...the military just finds it expensive to take advantage of it. But that doesn't make it slavery...it's in the contract.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Then don't join thai.

I was in the military for 10 years and quit. I'm going to voice my opinions of the military based on that experience. Thank you.

If that's the way you feel, stay far away and hope they don't re-institute the draft. If they do, it's because they need cannon fodder. Guess who gets to be that?

The Marines and Army.

You're not suit for it and nobody is forcing you to join -- to the contrary, I'm recommending you don't.

I am not suited for it, you are correct. Not after I learned the hard way what it was about. I'll tell other people the realities so they don't make the same mistake.

Those who do join will sacrifice for you, proudly.

Not true at all, there are those that join and realize that it was a mistake. They sacrifice because they are made to. Some do the job because they have to and are too proud to take an "easy" way out, like doing drugs to get kicked out and such.

I know we need a military, I don't think that the government treats it's military people well enough. I don't agree that enlisted people should become property.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Enslisting in the military (American at least) is nothing at all like slavery and it is not even for an indefinite period of time.

But it is. You lose rights, you become property and they can keep you in the military indefinitely. Maybe you haven't heard of "stop-loss".

 

[TragicMonkey]

But it is. You lose rights, you become property and they can keep you in the military indefinitely. Maybe you haven't heard of "stop-loss".

Prisoners have even fewer rights, but they aren't slaves. Nor are mental institution denizens, even when kept there against their wills.

 

[Tricky]

To your credit your replies are more rational and worthwhile than those trying to defend you (you score big points alone for avoiding the term "ad hominem"), but frankly you've no idea what you're talking about. Enslisting in the military (American at least) is nothing at all like slavery and it is not even for an indefinite period of time.

Point one: Enlisting in the military can be compared to slavery, although it is not identical. You are expected to follow orders without question. That is a bit like slavery. You cannot just quit. That is a bit like slavery. It is unlike slavery in that you sign an agreement to join, but unlike many business agreements, it cannot be renegotiated.

Point two: The time can be indefinite. Although you are essentially "on call" for some period after your active service is complete, you are not paid full wages for that time unless you are active, making it difficult to plan a career. You don't know whether or not you will be called back, so that is indefinite. "Indefinite" is not the same as "endless".

Point three: As to TBK, he has served in the military, so he has the credentials to make a knowledgable commentary on his experience there and on the military in general. You may (and I may) disagree with his conclusions but the personal attacks (not to use the AH word) on his "unfitness" are completely without merit. Obviously he was considered fit.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Also, slaves don't often get paid for their work.

 

[Rob Lister]

I was in the military for 10 years and quit.

You'll excuse me if I don't believe it.

You seem to lack even the basic understanding of the military. I find it difficult to believe you'd last ten months, much less ten years. That you lasted ten years (which requires AT LEAST one RE-enlistment), make me all the more skeptical of your claim.

So, you joined, learned for real what it was about, then RE-enlisted (making all your objections to it humorous, or...

You've never put your foot in a military boot.

 

[Tricky]

Also, slaves don't often get paid for their work.

No, not in cash. There were other compensations. Most stayed with their owners for various reasons. IIRC, few were actually locked up. It was just that in the environment that they lived in, it was more beneficial to continue to be a slave than an "escaped slave". In this, it is similar to the military. You can desert if you choose, but it will likely be worse for you if you do.

 

[Tricky]

You'll excuse me if I don't believe it.

You seem to lack even the basic understanding of the military. I find it difficult to believe you'd last ten months, much less ten years. That you lasted ten years (which requires AT LEAST one RE-enlistment), make me all the more skeptical of your claim.

So, you joined, learned for real what it was about, then RE-enlisted (making all your objections to it humorous, or...

You've never put your foot in a military boot.

I'm not sure what you think to accomplish by this. Odd as it may seem, different people have different experiences in the military, and you seem to be saying that unless his was like yours or others you have heard, then it doesn't count. Since it is unlikely TBK is going to reveal his true identity here (for very good reasons, IMO) it cannot be determined for certain, so all you can do is make a personal attack.

And people can do things they regret years later, like re-enlisting.

BTW, I was in the military too. I have an honorable discharge. It was a mistake because I am admittedly not of military bent. I was certainly not bent enough for the Navy.

 

[TragicMonkey]

No, not in cash. There were other compensations. Most stayed with their owners for various reasons. IIRC, few were actually locked up. It was just that in the environment that they lived in, it was more beneficial to continue to be a slave than an "escaped slave". In this, it is similar to the military. You can desert if you choose, but it will likely be worse for you if you do.

But unlike slavery, you get paid and can save your money and do with it whatever you like when you get out, because you will get out eventually. They won't keep you for your entire life up to and including old age.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Prisoners have even fewer rights, but they aren't slaves. Nor are mental institution denizens, even when kept there against their wills.

I don't agree, prisoners and mental institutions have more rights. Enlistees can be ordered to risk their lives, unnecessarily. Enlistees can be executed for not carrying out orders. Such is not the case with the former.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Also, slaves don't often get paid for their work.

Enlistee pay can be suspended simply by order, although it doesn't happen often.

 

[thaiboxerken]

You'll excuse me if I don't believe it.

Wipe your nose.

You seem to lack even the basic understanding of the military.

Actually, I just don't agree with you. That doesn't mean I don't have an understanding of the military.

I find it difficult to believe you'd last ten months, much less ten years. That you lasted ten years (which requires AT LEAST one RE-enlistment), make me all the more skeptical of your claim.

I re-enlisted once. First term was 6 yr.

So, you joined, learned for real what it was about, then RE-enlisted (making all your objections to it humorous, or...

One doesn't learn what the mliltary is about in one term, often. It takes going to a crappy assignment to place things into perspective.

You've never put your foot in a military boot.

I did, but we called the boondockers.

 

[thaiboxerken]

But unlike slavery, you get paid and can save your money and do with it whatever you like when you get out, because you will get out eventually. They won't keep you for your entire life up to and including old age.

You could save the money. You can be happy that they didn't decide to just stop paying you. There have been several scares where federal budgets came close to not being approved, thus would've ended with a stop of pay. I remember two of those scares when I was in, although I didn't believe that it was going to happen. The point is, it CAN happen. The government can decide not to pay and the enlistees would still be required to work.

 

[Tricky]

But unlike slavery, you get paid and can save your money and do with it whatever you like when you get out, because you will get out eventually. They won't keep you for your entire life up to and including old age.

That is correct. I said it was like slavery in some ways, not in all ways. Apples and oranges are alike in many ways too, so it is not incorrect to compare them.

 

[Rob Lister]

Wipe your nose.
One doesn't learn what the mliltary is about in one term, often. It takes going to a crappy assignment to place things into perspective.

THAT is another reason I don't believe you. It took me exactly ONE day to realize I'd bitten off more than I wanted to chew. Yet I overcame and I retired from it after 20+ years...complete with many campaigns in many foreign lands.

You stayed six years and didn't figure it out.

What does that say about you?

Occum doesn't suggest you're stupid. It suggests something worse.

 

[thaiboxerken]

THAT is another reason I don't believe you. It took me exactly ONE day to realize I'd bitten off more than I wanted to chew. I retired from it.

So, the first day you decided that it wasn't for you.. but you retired from it. But you understood it on day one? That sounds a bit contradictory to me.

You stayed six years and didn't figure it out.

Actually, it was around year 5, AFTER I already enlisted that I started to figure it out. That was about the time I went to my first ship. Before that, most of my time was spent at different schools.

What does that say about you?

That I hadn't spent much time on a ship.