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"Benefits From Vitamins Are Few"

jimtron

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jimtron
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LA Times article.

There's no evidence that multivitamins do healthy adults much good, but the supplements don't seem to do much harm either, a federal panel said Wednesday.

Concluding a three-day conference convened by the National Institutes of Health, the panel called for further studies of multivitamins. Half of adults in the U.S. take multivitamins, helping to push annual sales of nutritional supplements to $23 billion.
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Shao said the industry welcomed further research, but added that supplement makers could not afford to conduct the long-term controlled studies that the panel sought because they "cost hundreds of millions of dollars."
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annual sales: 23 billion
cost of long-term studies: hundreds of millions
profiting from the ignorance of consumers: priceless
 
I've been more than a little skeptical of them when I was informed that some combinations cancel each other out - like calcium and iron. Or if you take a multivitamin with milk or other dairy, it reduces the vitamin to a placebo-like effect.

Sure you're taking vitamins, but for what benefit?

Eat 'cher veggies!
 
Just to point out the obvious: There are plenty of benefits with vitamins. Vitamins are vital! However, anyone who is reasonably healthy and who is on a reasonably healthy and diverse diet should have all their vitamin needs covered.
 
By the way, I don't have a strong opinion either way about vitamin supplements. However, I do think there's a bundle of money to be made from them, and it's not in the interest of vitamin makers to fund a study that might show that their product has no benefits.

I have purchased multivitamins in the past, and would continue to buy them in the future if they're shown to be worthwhile. On the other hand, if they aren't doing me any good, I'd prefer to spend the money on something more beneficial, such as beer.
 
As I understand it, the "daily" vitamins are all water-soluble, so you end up pissing them out again each day. Which begs the question: Why bother with the middleman - tip the bottle contents in the loo straight off!
 
Heh, somebody ought to point the Skepdoc to this thread!
 
I trust B & L on optics - I would rather find vitamin benefits data from more neutral sources.
 
Hardenbergh said:
Specialty vitamins such as Ocuvite PreserVision from Bausch and Lomb has been proven to help prevent moderate macular degeneration from becoming more advanced.

http://www.bausch.com/us/vision/products/vitamins/ocuvite_preservision.jsp
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From the actual study at http://www.nei.nih.gov/amd/faqs.asp#1:
Q. Who should take the combination of antioxidants and zinc like those used in the Age-Related Eye Disease Study?
People who should consider taking the combination of antioxidants plus zinc include those who are at high risk for developing advanced AMD. These people are defined as having either:

1. Intermediate AMD in one or both eyes. Intermediate AMD is defined as the presence of either many medium-sized drusen or one or more large drusen.
2. Advanced AMD in one eye, but not the other eye. Advanced AMD is defined as either a breakdown of light-sensitive cells and supporting tissue in the central retinal area (advanced dry form), or the development of abnormal and fragile blood vessels under the retina (wet form) that can leak fluid or bleed. Either of these forms of advanced AMD can cause vision loss.
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So, even in this case, it's only after you already have AMD to some degree that the supplements are more useful than not.

To elaborate:
Q. Are there reasons older people, in particular, should be cautious in supplementing their diets with the nutrients and doses used in the AREDS?
Yes. There are reasons to be cautious in using high-dose vitamins and minerals, particularly among older people. Many older Americans take prescription medications, and a considerable number use over-the-counter drugs, dietary supplements, and herbal medicines. High-dose nutrients can interfere with medications and interact with other nutrients to decrease the nutrients' absorption into the body. This can ultimately affect a person's nutritional and health status. For example, the zinc concentration in the AREDS formulation is at a very high dose and could cause copper deficiency anemia. To prevent this, copper was added to the AREDS formulation. People who are being treated for chronic diseases such as cancer, heart disease, and diabetes should not take high dose nutrients without talking with their doctors. Generally, self-medication with high doses of vitamins and minerals -- such as those in the AREDS formulation -- is not recommended. Individuals who are considering taking the AREDS formulation should discuss this with their primary care doctors and/or eye care professionals. They can help you determine which formulation and dosages are best for you.
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And:
Q. If I have been diagnosed with early AMD, should I take the nutrients to help prevent disease progression to the intermediate stage?
There is no apparent need for those diagnosed with early AMD to take the nutrients studied in the AREDS. This is because the study did not demonstrate that the nutrients provided a benefit to those with early AMD. Many people with early AMD progressed to intermediate AMD during the study, and the AREDS formulation did not seem to slow this progression. However, if you have early AMD, a dilated eye examination every year can help determine whether the disease is progressing.
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And finally:
Q. What are the side effects from the AREDS formulation?
The AREDS participants reported few side effects from the treatments. About 7.5 percent of participants assigned to the zinc treatments -- regardless of whether they were the "antioxidants plus zinc" or "zinc alone" treatment -- experienced genitourinary problems that required hospitalization. Some of these problems included urinary tract infections, kidney stones, incontinence, and enlarged prostate. This compares with five percent of participants who did not have zinc in their assigned treatment that experienced the same genitourinary problems. Participants in the two groups that took zinc also reported anemia at a slightly higher rate; however, testing of all patients for this disorder showed no difference among treatment groups. Yellowing of the skin, a well-known side effect of large doses of beta-carotene, was reported slightly more often by participants taking antioxidants.
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Thanks, Huntsman, for finding the link to the study. I just noticed that there was a link to the article in the Bausch & Lomb website. My father uses this particular product. It seems like there is a lot of zinc and there are warnings about taking too much zinc.
 
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Hardenbergh said:
Thanks, Huntsman, for finding the link to the study. My father uses this particular product. It seems like there is a lot of zinc and there are warnings about taking too much zinc.
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It's a lot of everything in it, and it's only recommended for those already in intermediate AMD.

That's one thing that bugs me. Peopel think "vitamins are good, so more vitamins are better!" and it just isn't true. Vitamin A, for example, has gotten a lot of press recently. It's lethal in large doses. Most can be.

The only reason to take vitamins is to cover some deficiency in diet (i.e.-Vitamin C when in areas where fresh fruits are unavailable) or in specific cases where the risks of large doses are outweighed by possible benefits (this study with AMD).
 
There are two other companies that I'm familiar with that manufacture nutritional supplements for the eyes. One product is called OptiAll and the other is OptiVision Forte. Supposedly, the magic ingredient in the OptiAll is the carnosine because I heard Dr. Bob Martin recommend it on his radio program for macular degeneration. He specifically mentioned the ingredient carnosine (not to be confused with carnitine).

Carnosine-containing eye drops have demonstrated efficacy in treating a variety of ophthalmic conditions, including corneal diseases, cataracts, as well as glaucoma and increased intraocular pressure. In 1997, clinical trials were conducted on 109 ophthalmic patients with carnosine-containing eye drops. The results confirmed accelerated healing of corneal erosions, trophic keratitis, post-herpetic epitheliopathy, primary and secondary corneal dystrophy, and bullous keratopathy (Maichuk et. al., 1997). Most striking, however, was the ability of carnosine to eliminate existing cataracts (Yuneva, et. al., 1999). Carnosine actually restores the proteins in the lens by removing the carbonyl groups, as described earlier. Furthermore, carnosine is thought to function as a "molecular water pump" (Baslow, 1998). In earlier experiments it was demonstrated that applying carnosine to the conjunctiva (the membrane covering the eye) caused a decrease in normal intraocular pressure and reduced prostaglandin-induced ocular hypertension (related to glaucoma).
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http://smart-nutrition.net/carnosine.htm

http://www.enaturalcare.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=6&cat=3&page=1

http://www.iquestsight.com/optivision_forte.html

I thought this was a good diet to follow even if you don't have eye problems:

http://www.iquestsight.com/myopia.html
 
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one thing that is odd about this article is that, from what i gathered, they were looking at "healthy" people and saying vitamins didnt do much, and that the study wasnt on people with deficiencies. well, first, i hope that they tested to see if these people were healthy and non deficient because of taking vitamins, but second, why didnt they do the study on deficient people and see if it helped? its like doing a study on the effectivenet of prosthetic limbs with people that have no amputations. yeah, the artifical leg wouldnt do jack for me, so why do people even make them?!? haha
 
gfunkusarelius said:
one thing that is odd about this article is that, from what i gathered, they were looking at "healthy" people and saying vitamins didnt do much, and that the study wasnt on people with deficiencies. well, first, i hope that they tested to see if these people were healthy and non deficient because of taking vitamins, but second, why didnt they do the study on deficient people and see if it helped? its like doing a study on the effectivenet of prosthetic limbs with people that have no amputations. yeah, the artifical leg wouldnt do jack for me, so why do people even make them?!? haha
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Good point, but I think the point is that most people taking supplements don't have any deficiencies in the first place.
 
One thing to remember about vitamins is that the RDA is just the amount needed to sustain health and not an amount for optimal benefits. The problem is that no one can seem to agree on the amount and some vitamin companies recommend more so they can sell more of the product.

I tried a greens supplement from Vibrant Health called Green Vibrance. It's available in both powder and capsule form. In the powder form, one serving is one tablespoon according to directions. More may be taken if desired.

I bought a bottle of the Green Vibrance capsules recently and I couldn't believe it when I read on the label that one serving is 16 capsules. Out of curiosity, I opened some capsules to see how many of the capsules would fill a tablespoon. Four capsules (not 16) filled one level tablespoon (not rounded) and the label instructions were to take 16 capsules for one serving. I suppose that it could also be taken in divided doses.

I called the company and told them what I had discovered. She said that was why she preferred to use the powder. They said that the product in the capsule is identical to the product in the powdered form. Of course, it's possible that the powder in the capsule might become a little compacted when it's encapsulated but it shouldn't make that much of a difference.

When I talked with someone from Customer Service, I said that I thought it was ridiculous to suggest taking 16 capsules of anything. Who would want to swallow that many capsules? Even a heaping and spilling over tablespoon wouldn't even come close to 16 capsules worth. I didn't actually talk to a person the second time--I left a voice mail message so I was a lot more daring than I would have been if I had actually talked to a real person.


Directions
As a food, take 16 capsules per day in a single or multiple divided doses, on an empty stomach with water, or approximately one hour after eating.
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http://www.vibranthealth.org/gvcapsules.html
http://www.vibranthealth.org/gv.html
http://www.vibranthealth.org/gvingredients.html
 
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You do need to be careful with some herbs and other health food supplements. For instance, crude forms of licorice, an ingredient included in some green food supplements, can cause elevated blood pressure.
"In deglycyrrhizinated licorice, the glycyrrhizin--a compound associated with high blood pressure--has been removed."

http://tsangenterprise.com/rhizinate.htm

There are also supplements that contain ingredients that can raise havoc with thyroid function if you already have a problem with thyroid function (soy is one). So you have to pay attention to the ingredients and check with your doctor when taking anything new. I've done this before with my own doctor but he didn't seem to have the time to look at the ingredients. All doctors aren't receptive to patients bringing in questions about every little thing that they ingest. I guess we have to do our own research sometimes on the internet or find a doctor who is willing to listen and investigate.
 
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