Pentagon releases AA77 video

[Regnad Kcin]

Suffer the little children.

 

[gfunkusarelius]

Yes, they are happy about it. That's the issue I have with the CT movement. I can handle stupidity, inanity, lunacy, lack of education, lack of critical thinking skills, etc. What I don't understand - and never will - is the unmitigated joy with which these idiots look forward to having their worst impressions of our national government (and the people working in it) proven correct.

yeah, i have seen people i thought were pretty good people light up with glee when they hear news that makes bush look really bad, even when it involves a lot of casualties (civilian or military, either way, its still creepy). people just get so caught up in the "us vs them" mentality that it doesnt seem like it is reality to them.

 

[Ripley Twenty-Nine]

Observe the woo in its natural habitat. Check under forum topics. Pentagon video threads are multiplying like bacteria.

Let's say I am the President, and I wanted to kill thousands of my own citizens by blowing up two landmarks in my country, just so I could justify a war on another country under the guise of 'Weapons of Mass Destruction' (This is what the Loosers believe, right?).

If I was brilliant enough to pull off planting tonnes of explosives in two of the busiest buildings in the world, and smashing remote controlled planes into them at the exact moment these explosives went off, I think I would also be able to do the following:

1) Plant Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq. I've got lots of them. I've got control of Iraq anyway. This would be awfully easy.
2) I'd release a crystal clear video of a plane hitting the Pentagon; even if I had to spend millions of dollars for a perfect recreation.

So far, we've got no WMD in Iraq, wire-tapping scandals, George Bush has a record low approval rating, the majority of Americans are against the war in Iraq, and the Vice President looking like an bumbling idiot for shooting his friend in the face. Ah yes, and now we have a video that's released as 'proof' of a plane hitting the Pentagon, which really doesn't prove anything.

So this is what I don't understand. Did the Administration start out being brilliant, then got really stupid? Is screwing up time and time again and turning the country against them PART of the plan?

 

[Regnad Kcin]

Ripley, you're asking for logic and coherence. Come now.

 

[Hagrok]

So this is what I don't understand. Did the Administration start out being brilliant, then got really stupid? Is screwing up time and time again and turning the country against them PART of the plan?

You really should read the 70 page thread here on this; it's really quite entertaining in a masochistic sort of way...

 

[Ririon]

So this is what I don't understand. Did the Administration start out being brilliant, then got really stupid? Is screwing up time and time again and turning the country against them PART of the plan?

NOW, do you understand that the Bush Administration is just a pawn? The conspiracy goes much deeper...

 

[Pardalis]

Even if we don't see the nose of the plane clearly enough for it to be unequivocal, I think the fact that they did allow this piece of video to be broadcast demonstrates that there couldn't be a missile hiting the pentagon. Otherwise, why would the government even risk showing anything, especially knowing that millions of people will be looking at these frames over and over again, analysing every pixel.

 

[milesalpha]

Just a question, after watching this damn thing several times. I thought it was certainly a plane initially. Then, in subsequent viewings, it seemed a bit small for a 757. It's hard to establish a perspective from the video, that could account for it. Any thoughts?

 

[dissonance]

to the conspiracy theorists...there are dozens of witnesses of different political leanings who witnessed a plane hitting the pentagon.

I have an acquaintance who saw the plane just before it hit the Pentagon. She didn't see it actually hit (I guess because of the angle or the terrain from where she was in her car) but she saw the plane coming in and the resulting smoke/fire. As she put it, if that plane didn't hit the Pentagon, where the hell did it go?

Which is why the 'no plane' conspiracy is one of the dumbest. A hell of a lot of people saw that plane. Unless you want to get into the really whacked out crazy stuff ('it was a missile painted to look like a plane! It was a hologram!'), you can't ignore the hundreds of people who saw the damn plane.

 

[chipmunk stew]

Just a question, after watching this damn thing several times. I thought it was certainly a plane initially. Then, in subsequent viewings, it seemed a bit small for a 757. It's hard to establish a perspective from the video, that could account for it. Any thoughts?

It's a fish-eye lens. Look at how distorted the curb is and the forced perspective on the outer wall of the building.

 

[Gravy]

A bit of perspective:

“Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C.

"I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html

Eric Bart's Pentagon Crash Witness List: http://eric.bart.free.fr/iwpb/witness.html

Another Pentagon Crash Witness list: http://www.geocities.com/someguyyoudontknow33/witnesses.htm

Note that many of the witnesses specifically say it was a very large American Airlines plane. Some of the witnesses are experienced at aircraft identification.

Here's a partial list of the organizations that would have to be fooled in order for the Pentagon conspiracy theories to begin to make sense. Keep in mind that 8,000 people were on the scene after the crash. To my knowledge none of them have supported any conspiracy theory. Have the CTs made any attempt to interview any of these 8,000 people? If I thought my government was launching terrorist attacks against its own citizens, I'D REALLY WANT TO FIND OUT FOR SURE, AND NOT JUST SPEND MY TIME TWIDDLING A COMPUTER MOUSE.

the Pentagon Fire Unit
the Pentagon security staff,
the DOD Honor Guard
the Pentagon Medical Unit,
the Pentagon 2-person Crash Response Team
the Pentagon Defense Protective Service,
Four U.S. Army Chaplains
One Catholic Priest (Stephen McGraw)
Donald Rumsfeld and staff
the Arlington County Fire Department,
the Arlington County Sheriff's Department,
Arlington County Emergency Medical Services
the Arlington, VA Police Department,
Fairfax County Fire & Rescue,
Montgomery County Fire & Rescue,
the Alexandria, VA Fire & Rescue
the District of Columbia Fire & Rescue
the Metropolitan Airport Authority Fire Unit
the Military District of Washington Search & Rescue Team
the Fort Myer Fire Department,
the Arlington County SWAT Team,
the Virginia State Police,
the FBI's Evidence Recovery Teams,
the National Transportation Safety Board
the HHS National Medical Response Team,
the FBI Hazmat Team,
the EPA Hazmat Team,
the FEMA Incident Support Team,
the FEMA Emergency Response Team,
the FEMA Disaster Field Office.
the FEMA Virginia-1, Virginia-2, Maryland-1 and Tennessee-1 Task Forces
the US Army Reserves of Virginia Beach, Fairfax County and Montgomery County,
the National Naval Medical Center CCRF
Federal Disaster Medical Assistance Teams,
the Virginia Department of Emergency Management
the US Department of Defense,
the Federal Aviation Administration,
the U.S. Army 54th Quartermaster Company Mortuary Staff
the U.S. Army 311th Quartermaster Company Mortuary Staff
the U.S. Armed Forces Institute of Pathology
the American Red Cross,
the United States Secret Service,
American Airllines
North American Aerospace Defense Command,
the National Military Command Center,
the National Disaster Medical System,
the US Army’s Communications-Electronics Command,
the Northeast Air Defense Sector Commanders
the E-4B National Airborne Operations Center aircraft
the C-130H crew in D.C.
the Air Traffic Control System Command Center in Washington

 

[Manny]

A bit of perspective:

“Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer...

Feh. Everyone knows that all the structural engineers in the world are in on it. That's why none have come forward about the controlled demolitions. Why would they treat the Pentagon any differently.

Eric Bart's Pentagon Crash Witness List:

This is another piece of evidence that the CTers are not deluded but rather are actively trying to cover up for al Qaeda. They take this list and cull Republicans, military people and "permanent government" from it. Then they publish that shortened list and say "See? All the so-called 'witnesses' are in on it!"

 

[Luke T.]

I really don't feel like wading through a bunch of crap elsewhere on a CT forum. Can someone just tell me where they say the passengers of Flight 77 and 93 are?

 

[ARubberChickenWithAPulley]

Aside from the hundreds of witnesses who saw the plane hit the Pentagon, there is also the odd coincidence of the remains of over 60 passengers on Flight 77 being recovered at the Pentagon.

It's pretty amazing, really, if you think about it. People assumed that AA Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon, when obviously it was a CIA-launched cruise missile. And on that exact same day, all the passengers on the flight that people thought crashed into the Pentagon happened to be visiting the Pentagon, and died anyway. What are the odds? No more than 1 in 10, I'd say.

Some people find these types of incredible coincedences spooky. But for me, they are what make every day an adventure.

 

[Ririon]

Obviously the planes were filled with explosives and remote controlled by the CIA as a decoy. They even went as far as putting their Al Quaeda friends on the planes. But none of them knew that the Priory of Sion was behind all of it.

 

[Zep]

It's all a massive publicity stunt for some Scientology movie with Tom Cruise and/or John Travolta in it, due for release soon.

 

[valis]

You guys think you are so smart; the folks at Prison Planet see right through you. All the release does is prove they were right all along...um in some circular sort of fashion. (sorry if this has already been posted I didn't have time to read the entire thread).

Alex Jones and this website have always approached the Pentagon subject with caution because we were wary that it was a potential honey pot that would be used to distract and later discredit the 9/11 truth movement.

 

[dubfan]

I really don't feel like wading through a bunch of crap elsewhere on a CT forum. Can someone just tell me where they say the passengers of Flight 77 and 93 are?

You get one of several answers:

1. We don't know (this is the most common answer). This is often followed by a diatribe about "Why don't you ask the government? Why do you hold Loose Change to such a high standard of evidence but believe the government's absurd story? We don't need to provide answers. We're just asking questions."

2. They were off-loaded when Flight 93 landed in Cleveland, and held at a NASA facility near the airport. (never mind that 93 didn't land in Cleveland). No answer is offered for the passengers of 77, 11, and 175.

3. Some of them are walking around the fenced-off sections of Denver International Airport.

Those are the answers I've gotten anyway.

 

[Pardalis]

It's pretty amazing, really, if you think about it. People assumed that AA Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon, when obviously it was a CIA-launched cruise missile. And on that exact same day, all the passengers on the flight that people thought crashed into the Pentagon happened to be visiting the Pentagon, and died anyway. What are the odds? No more than 1 in 10, I'd say.

The Loosers don't acknowledge that these people boarded these planes, that they were sent elsewhere and never seen again. (So if you cut throught their BS they basically say that they were killed by the Governement).

Maybe their remains were packed inside the missile that impacted the Pentagon so that their DNA would be found there?

As grotesque as this idea is, I'm pretty sure the Loosers would like it better and be willing to believe it over the official story. "Anything but the official story, no matter how insane" is their motto.

 

[Kopji]

Yeah. CNN and National Geographic maintain a memorial listing of Flight 77 passengers. The names are worth posting in the face of every conspiracy theorist. They need some evidence or SHUT UP.

CREW
Charles Burlingame... survived by a wife, a daughter and a grandson.

David Charlebois...

Michele Heidenberger... left behind a husband, a pilot, and a daughter and son.

[Husband and wife flight attendants Jennifer Lewis & Kenneth Lewis.]

Renee May

PASSENGERS
Paul Ambrose, 32, of Washington, was a physician who worked with the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services

and the surgeon general to address racial and ethnic disparities in health. A 1995 graduate of Marshall University School of Medicine, Ambrose last year was named the Luther Terry Fellow of the Association of Teachers of Preventative Medicine.

Yeneneh Betru...

M.J. Booth

Bernard Brown, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Suzanne Calley, 42, of San Martin, California, was an employee of Cisco Systems Inc.

William Caswell

Sarah Clark, 65, of Columbia, Maryland, was a sixth-grade teacher at Backus Middle School in Washington. She was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Asia Cottom, 11, was a student at Backus Middle School in Washington. Asia was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

James Debeuneure, 58, of Upper Marlboro, Maryland, was a fifth-grade teacher at Ketcham Elementary School in Washington. He was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Rodney Dickens, 11, was a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. He was embarking on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Eddie Dillard

Charles Droz

Barbara Edwards, 58, of Las Vegas, Nevada, was a teacher at Palo Verde High School in Las Vegas.

Charles S. Falkenberg, 45, of University Park, Maryland, was the director of research at ECOlogic Corp., a software engineering firm. He worked on data systems for NASA and also developed data systems for the study of global and regional environmental issues. Falkenburg was traveling with his wife, Leslie Whittingham, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3.

Zoe Falkenberg, 8...

Dana Falkenberg, 3...

Joe Ferguson was the director of the National Geographic Society's geography education outreach program in Washington. He was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California. A Mississippi native, he joined the society in 1987. "Joe Feguson's final hours at the Geographic reveal the depth of his commitment to one of the things he really loved," said John Fahey Jr., the society's president. "Joe was here at the office until late Monday evening preparing for this trip. It was his goal to make this trip perfect in every way."

Wilson "Bud" Flagg of Millwood, Virginia, was a retired Navy admiral and retired American Airlines pilot.

Dee Flagg

Richard Gabriel

Ian Gray, 55, of Washington was the president of a health-care consulting firm.

Stanley Hall, 68...

Bryan Jack, 48, of Alexandria, Virginia, was a senior executive at the Defense Department.

Steven D. "Jake" Jacoby, 43, of Alexandria, Virginia, was the chief operating officer of Metrocall Inc., a wireless data and messaging company.

Ann Judge, 49, of Virginia was the travel office manager for the National Geographic Society. She was accompanying a group of students and teachers on an educational trip to the Channel Islands in California.

Society President John Fahey Jr. said one of his fondest memories of Judge is a voice mail she and a colleague once left him while they were rafting the Monkey River in Belize. "This was quintessential Ann -- living life to the fullest and wanting to share it with others," he said.

Chandler Keller, 29, was a Boeing propulsion engineer from El Segundo, California.

Yvonne Kennedy

Norma Khan, 45, from Reston, Virginia was a nonprofit organization manager.

Karen A. Kincaid, 40, was a lawyer with the Washington firm of Wiley Rein & Fielding. She joined the firm in 1993 and was part of the its telecommunications practice. She was married to Peter Batacan.

Norma Langsteuerle

Dong Lee

Dora Menchaca, 45, of Santa Monica, California, was the associate director of clinical research for a biotech firm.

Christopher Newton, 38, of Anaheim, California, was president and chief executive officer of Work-Life Benefits, a consultation and referral service. He was married and had two children. Newton was on his way back to Orange County to retrieve his family's yellow Labrador, who had been left behind until they could settle into their new home in Arlington, Virginia.

Barbara Olson, 45, was a conservative commentator who often appeared on CNN and was married to U.S. Solicitor General Theodore Olson. She twice called her husband as the plane was being hijacked and described some details, including that the attackers were armed with knives. She had planned to take a different flight, but she changed it at the last minute so that she could be with her husband on his birthday. She worked as an investigator for the House Government Reform Committee in the mid-1990s and later worked on the staff of Senate Minority Whip Don Nickles.

Ruben Ornedo, 39, of Los Angeles, California, was a Boeing propulsion engineer.

Robert Penniger, 63, of Poway, California, was an electrical engineer with BAE Systems.

Lisa Raines, 42, was senior vice president for government relations at the Washington office of Genzyme, a biotechnology firm. She was from Great Falls, Virginia, and was married to Stephen Push. She worked with the U.S.

Food and Drug Administration on developing a new policy governing cellular therapies, announced in 1997. She also worked on other major health-care legislation.

Todd Reuben, 40...

John Sammartino

Diane Simmons

George Simmons

Mari-Rae Sopper of Santa Barbara, California, was a women's gymnastics coach at the University of California at Santa Barbara. She had just gotten the post August 31 and was making the trip to California to start work.

Bob Speisman, 47...

Hilda Taylor was a sixth-grade teacher at Leckie Elementary School in Washington. She was accompanying a student on an educational trip to the Channel Islands National Marine Sanctuary near Santa Barbara, California, as part of a program funded by the National Geographic Society.

Leonard Taylor...

Leslie A. Whittington, 45, was from University Park, Maryland. The professor of public policy at Georgetown University in Washington was traveling with her husband, Charles Falkenberg, 45, and their two daughters, Zoe, 8, and Dana, 3. They were traveling to Los Angeles to catch a connection to Australia. Whittington had been named a visiting fellow at Australian National University in Canberra.

John Yamnicky, 71...

Vicki Yancey

Shuyin Yang

Yuguag Zheng

http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/victims/AA77.victims.html

Two staff members of the National Geographic Society, along with three Washington, D.C., teachers and three students they were traveling with, were among the victims of the terrorist attacks in the United States on Tuesday, officials of the Society announced on Wednesday.

Ann Judge, director of the Society's travel office, and Joe Ferguson, director of the Geography Education

Outreach Program, were accompanying the three teacher-student pairs on an educational trip to California.

They were all killed along with the other passengers of American Airlines Flight 77 after it was hijacked and crashed into the Pentagon at about 9:45 Tuesday morning.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/09/0912_disasterngs.html