I never thought about it this way.

[Pauliesonne]

Recently, someone at skeptic magasine and me have been emailing and she said something I never realised untill now, made perfect sense.

- Around 5th or 6th grade I decided it all made no sense--why would God send millions of people to Hell forever when they never had a chance, (in both other countries and pre-Christian history). I thought it wasn't fair because I was compelled to accept Christianity by every aspect of my environment. I decided to put the decision on the shelf until I was older and had more understanding of it--and never thought much about it again until I had to write about it in my mid-40s. It was never a struggle for me to give it all up. This "God-is-not fair/it doesn't make any sense" idea turns out to be a common reason why people give up believing in religion -

 

[tkingdoll]

I never namedrop, James Randi told me people don't like it.

 

[CplFerro]

Man: Life is not fair!

God: I don't care.

Man: I don't understand why!

God: I don't care.

That about sums up the Yahweh position, doesn't it? Yahweh is inscrutable, like an Oriental tyrant, and will do what He will do, regardless of what you think, "feel," or care about the matter.

 

[Nettles]

Would it make you feel any better if I told you that according to Christian mythology, part of Jesus's passion involved him going to Hell and letting out all the people who'd been locked up there? It's called the Harrowing of Hell, and it played an important part in mediaeval passion plays.

 

[Beerina]

I never namedrop, James Randi told me people don't like it.

The only thing James Randi ever said to you was, "I'd like two mediums with pepperoni and sausage, a cheesy bread, and I have a coupon for a free two liter of Diet Pepsi."

 

[tkingdoll]

The only thing James Randi ever said to you was, "I'd like two mediums with pepperoni and sausage, a cheesy bread, and I have a coupon for a free two liter of Diet Pepsi."

Hey, those were LARGE pizzas, and he let me keep the change.

 

[uncy]

Would it make you feel any better if I told you that according to Christian mythology, part of Jesus's passion involved him going to Hell and letting out all the people who'd been locked up there? It's called the Harrowing of Hell, and it played an important part in mediaeval passion plays.

Didn’t he only release John the Baptist and Moses and other import people? Also didn’t Peter write an apocalyptic text in which Jesus answered the question about an all-loving God and his creation of Hell, by stating that on Judgment day all will be pardoned and allowed to heaven?

 

[Zep]

OK, where IS all this fiction about Jesus and/or God Harrowing Hell? It's not in the bible, as far as can be ascertained.

 

[Ryokan]

OK, where IS all this fiction about Jesus and/or God Harrowing Hell? It's not in the bible, as far as can be ascertained.

Are you sure? I seem to remember a passage in one of the gospels about Jesus going to hell, in the period between the crusifiction and the ressurection, to free the souls there. Don't remember much beyond that.

 

[kmortis]

You can glean some of it out of 1 Peter 3: 18-20,

18For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19through whom[d] also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,

From...bolding mine

but mainly it's in the Apostles' Creed

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth;
and in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord;
who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead and buried.
He descended into hell.
The third day he rose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven,
and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father almighty.
From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen

There's a protestant version of this too, but I can't find it. I remember growing up in the Methodist Church and saying something similar.

 

[ChristineR]

Are you sure? I seem to remember a passage in one of the gospels about Jesus going to hell, in the period between the crusifiction and the ressurection, to free the souls there. Don't remember much beyond that.

No, it's not. There is some talk about "the keys to the gates of Hades" but Hades was not really like our current idea of hell. Anyhow, the way I heard the story it was Jesus letting the Jews out of purgatory, and only Catholics believe it. The story comes from The Gospel of Nicodemus (sometimes also called the Acts of Pilate, not to be confused with the Pagan Acts of Pilate). I haven't read it, though.

 

[Just Me]

The only thing James Randi ever said to you was, "I'd like two mediums with pepperoni and sausage, a cheesy bread, and I have a coupon for a free two liter of Diet Pepsi."

yum, Sylvia and John, smoothered in pepperoni and sausauge wrestling on my family room floor, while I watch and eat cheesy bread and drink pepsi.

 

[Nex]

yum, Sylvia and John, smoothered in pepperoni and sausauge wrestling on my family room floor, while I watch and eat cheesy bread and drink pepsi.

That's... that's just not right.

 

[Just Me]

That's... that's just not right.

Oh please! If all money went to worthy charities I know you'd pay good money for that show and don't tell me otherwise!!

 

[Kopji]

You can glean some of it out of 1 Peter 3: 18-20,

From...bolding mine

but mainly it's in the Apostles' Creed


There's a protestant version of this too, but I can't find it. I remember growing up in the Methodist Church and saying something similar.

The Nicene Creed?

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

 

[Darat]

You can glean some of it out of 1 Peter 3: 18-20,

From...bolding mine

but mainly it's in the Apostles' Creed


There's a protestant version of this too, but I can't find it. I remember growing up in the Methodist Church and saying something similar.

Really? So was I and hell as in the "fire and brimstone" variety was never preached at all - the result of not doing as the big guy wanted was to not spend eternity with him, which was meant to be the worse thing possible to imagine. (i.e. "250. We believe that the Scriptures clearly teach that there is a conscious personal existence after death. The final destiny of each person is determined by God's grace and that person's response, evidenced inevitably by a moral character which results from that individual's personal and volitional choices and not from any arbitrary decree of God. Heaven with its eternal glory and the blessedness of Christ's presence is the final abode of those who choose the salvation which God provides through Jesus Christ, but hell with its everlasting misery and separation from God is the final abode of those who neglect this great salvation." http://www.gswc.org/gswc_beliefs.htm)

 

[Upchurch]

The only thing James Randi ever said to you was, "I'd like two mediums with pepperoni and sausage, a cheesy bread, and I have a coupon for a free two liter of Diet Pepsi."

and it changed my life forever.