Back for more, eh? Your avatar could have fooled me. Zeus was a figurative artistic example of human potential. Was it based on a real person, though? Who knows. It's the same issue with characters like Jesus, Lao Tzu, and others..
If that was a mockery of my notion of Bush being simply a product of American "values", prepare for a heated, drawn out dialogue.
thaiboxerken
Penultimate Amazing
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Zeus was also a god, the father of many gods, that many people worshipped. Which god is it that you think is the one that only people who have unresolvable doubts don't believe in?
Humans share a link with the animal kingdom. An animal has limited control over themselves and their enviornment, along with little if any reasoning ability and moral sanity - humans have these base instincts, but are vastly superior in everything but brute strength. For animals, the central motivation is to carry on one's genes. For humans however, the concept of survival is much different, as humans are aware they will eventually die. My point is, like it or not, overcoming and transcending limitation is the driving force of human nature, whether it be by inventing a jacket to warm oneself or developing the ability to stay warm in freezing weather without one. As to Zeus, the context I imagine people "worshipped" him - assuming he was a real person and not just good art - was much the same way as athletes look up to Michael Jordan - an inspiring representation of human achievement and breaking limitations. The limitations he represented breaking however, were absolutes, which meant, humans set their own limitations.
Skeptic Ginger
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From the post,
I can't make heads nor tails about what you are referring to, can you be more specific?
thaiboxerken
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We are a part of the animal kingdom.
I don't agree with this statement at all. There are a few species of animals, other than human, that use reason and actually adapt their environment to suit their survival. Our species happens to be better at it.
Other species of animals do this as well. You are describing survival as if it's something only humans do.
No, Zeus was worshipped in much the same way that the christian god, the Muslim god or any other god was worshipped. Religions were formed around Zeus and the other gods of that pantheon. It wasn't simply a "role model" to look to.
Again, which god do you think is the one we should believe in if we are not to be labelled by you as having "unresolvable doubts."?
I clearly didn't disagree - I pointed out that all animals, including humans, share the same universal drives. However, the ephemeral drives humans have beyond these are also universal. Any form of life evolving intelligence would also evolve social and moral intelligence, and try to unify the two conceptually with objective ideas of nature.
You can't start any kind of heroic tradition without attracting the mediocre and malignant to your ranks. That's why the many traditions evolved into closed-door sects and lineages.
Hmm, let me get back to you on that one, after I have time tonight to pick a good one. Oh, and by unresolvable doubts, I meant objective meaning and purpose. There are of course, people who don't care about either, just as there are those who don't care about the consequences of their (non) actions on their physical health.
thaiboxerken
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Unresovable doubts = objective meaning and purpose?! What freaking language are you speaking. Your posts are nonsense, you try to sound intelligent in them but fail miserably.
Zeus is a god, just like any other god, even those worshipped today. They are make-believe creatures.
Zeus is a god, just like any other god, even those worshipped today. They are make-believe creatures.
Ken..
Ken....
Ok, well, there's only one way to find out: ask Zeus for some woman or man to grab your butt within the next 30 days, and tell us what happens.
thaiboxerken
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Your responses are simply moronic. I tell you that Zeus is a god, and you say that I should ask that god to have someone grab-ass at me. WTF is wrong with your head?
Ken, your lack of faith disturbs me. We could have a variation of Shrodinger's Cat going on, for the fascination of all involved in the name of reason, trying to figure out whether ol' thunder and debauchery is really omnipotent or dead. Come on Ken, you know you want to...
Zeus and Yaway worshipped in the same way??
"No, Zeus was worshipped in much the same way that the Christian god, the Muslim god or any other god was worshipped. Religions were formed around Zeus and the other gods of that pantheon. It wasn't simply a "role model" to look to." - thaiboxerken
No, you are mistaken here . .
The various pagan gods (focusing now on the Greek and Roman pantheon) where worshipped in a VERY different way then all of the religions based on Abraham's monotheism.
Most people brought up in a mainly monotheist world just do not understand now ancient religions worked. (my lame attempt to state this in a short post)
There was no overriding need/requirement to "believe" in any of the gods (sure most did but it was not a cornerstone of the religion). You could worship or not any god or any combination of gods (want to worship another god? . . sure go ahead just follow these steps . . ). The physical ACT of worship and sacrifice was the only real requirement (the act and not the "belief in"). The main goal was to appease or gain favor with the gods to stop bad things happening to you or to gain the good. But since the gods where VERY human (personifications in many cases) the worship was to navigate there very human fights, arguments, fits, and rarely generosity that effected the world.
These gods just where, (like a force of nature) and you had to deal with them in the manner that "they" wanted and that was mainly a list of various actions ie worship.
monotheism is much more strict with the NEED to believe (in your head and not just in action), exclusion of all others beliefs/gods, the punishment for not believing, that the God is unknowable, all powerful, everything . . vs a much more loose take it or leave it pantheon of powerful but very human (more identifiable) gods.
Christianity is a real culprit in bending even our basic understanding of ancient cultures and religions (even if you do not formally subscribe to it). They tend not to just delete information which is bad enough but also subvert the information and change the way you look at the information . . [All religions are basically worshipped in much the same way that the Christian god] . . is rather telling and often repeated but entirely wrong.
"No, Zeus was worshipped in much the same way that the Christian god, the Muslim god or any other god was worshipped. Religions were formed around Zeus and the other gods of that pantheon. It wasn't simply a "role model" to look to." - thaiboxerken
No, you are mistaken here . .
The various pagan gods (focusing now on the Greek and Roman pantheon) where worshipped in a VERY different way then all of the religions based on Abraham's monotheism.
Most people brought up in a mainly monotheist world just do not understand now ancient religions worked. (my lame attempt to state this in a short post)
There was no overriding need/requirement to "believe" in any of the gods (sure most did but it was not a cornerstone of the religion). You could worship or not any god or any combination of gods (want to worship another god? . . sure go ahead just follow these steps . . ). The physical ACT of worship and sacrifice was the only real requirement (the act and not the "belief in"). The main goal was to appease or gain favor with the gods to stop bad things happening to you or to gain the good. But since the gods where VERY human (personifications in many cases) the worship was to navigate there very human fights, arguments, fits, and rarely generosity that effected the world.
These gods just where, (like a force of nature) and you had to deal with them in the manner that "they" wanted and that was mainly a list of various actions ie worship.
monotheism is much more strict with the NEED to believe (in your head and not just in action), exclusion of all others beliefs/gods, the punishment for not believing, that the God is unknowable, all powerful, everything . . vs a much more loose take it or leave it pantheon of powerful but very human (more identifiable) gods.
Christianity is a real culprit in bending even our basic understanding of ancient cultures and religions (even if you do not formally subscribe to it). They tend not to just delete information which is bad enough but also subvert the information and change the way you look at the information . . [All religions are basically worshipped in much the same way that the Christian god] . . is rather telling and often repeated but entirely wrong.
thaiboxerken
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I need no faith. Your speculation is only speculation. Schrodinger's Cat doesn't apply to the question of if gods exist or not. There is no evidence of any gods, unlike cats.
thaiboxerken
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I said MUCH the same way, not exactly the same way. Monotheists still pray to their gods for favor and such. Their gods are just as inevident as the greek pantheon. They kill for their gods, sacrifice things and try to gain favor for some sort of gift. The only real difference that you seem to be pointing out is that the monotheistic religions are made up of gods that insist the other gods do not exist and punish those that don't believe.
Ken, that's the crappiest impression of Akira I've seen yet.
Cats were also gods. But the super absolute gods were once human.
thaiboxerken
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