Stephen Colbert: Giant Brass Balls

[BPSCG]

I think it's wonderful to have a wife who doesn't get upset when you tell her she's fat.
Wouldn't you agree?

I wouldn't know. Mrs. BPSCG isn't fat (except she thinks she is, but she's delusional that way), so she doesn't get upset when I tell her she's fat, because I don't tell her she's fat.

And you'll note that in neither my linked message nor the one you just responded to, did I say that:

1. Being able to mock the president to his face was the best thing about this country, 'cuz it isn't, or;
2. Being able to mock or criticize the country was the best thing about it, either.

Apart from that, you had an excellent point, which was...

 

[Snide]

I wouldn't know. Mrs. BPSCG isn't fat (except she thinks she is, but she's delusional that way), so she doesn't get upset when I tell her she's fat, because I don't tell her she's fat.

I'm with ya there.

And you'll note that in neither my linked message nor the one you just responded to, did I say that: 1. Being able to mock the president to his face was the best thing about this country, 'cuz it isn't, or;

I address this below.

2. Being able to mock or criticize the country was the best thing about it, either.

Who said you did? The links merely show that you criticized others who (supposedly) do.

Now, if you are claiming a material distinction exists here between "best" and "great/wonderful," then re-read the posts I linked. You'll see that I challenged your claim of anyone saying "best" in the scenario you provided, and you responded by ignoring that point, and claiming I missed yours (I didn't).

You didn't find a distinction betwen "great/wonderful" and "best" then, why do you now?

Or perhaps I should ask, why would you not allow me to make that leap now in thinking that when you say "wonderful" you mean "best." (If that's what I were doing - but for argument's sake, let's say I am.) You, after all made an even greater leap here (from the middle link I provided):

When people say "The best thing about America is you're free to criticize it," that's a tip-off that the speaker thinks that's the only good thing about America, because he never has anything else good to say about the country.

So you can make the "best" to "only good" leap, and add the "never has anything else good to say" garbage, but the same standards do not apply to you. Got it.

Let me ask you this: Do you think a reasonable person would find the following true?

If Person X says, "It's wonderful to live in a country where the most powerful man in the world can be mocked to his face," then Person X has said nothing worthy of criticism.

But:

If Person Y says, "The best thing about America is you're free to criticize it," then clearly you can tell that Person Y "hates America."

Assume you've never met neither X or Y.

And in case you didn't notice, I am using your words, in context.

 

[davefoc]

Was it inappropriate for the venue? YES. I don't expect him ever to be invited back, nor do I think the organizers would be unfair to feel that way.
...

I thought it was inappropriate for the venue also. And in that I think Gnome and I agreed with what Skeptic said.

And in normal times I would have thought that Colbert was a rude jerk when he crossed the line from good natured ribbing to mean spirited sarcasm.

But these aren't normal times. Colbert may have been inappropriate for the event, but he was not inappropriate. What was inappropriate was the event itself. This is not the time for sophomoric humor by the president.

Thousands of American soldiers have been killed and tens of thousands of Iraqis have been killed because of a war that was justified by deliberate lies. Further the occupation that followed the war was used as an opportunity to line the pockets of Bushco buddies without regard to the consequences of this corruption on the lives of the Iraqis or the American soldiers.

No jokes are going to erase the reality of this. But because of Colbert, we now know that at least once somebody managed to break through the Bush's isolation from reality to let him know what the majority of the US thinks about him.

 

[Kerberos]

I watched most of the thing on C-SPAN. All he did was play his Colbert Report character - the satirical, over-the-top conservative pundit. It was not even-handed, but I can't help but wonder what the people who invited him thought they were getting when they asked him to speak?

Bush with his double was hilarious - self-deprecating humor is his strong suit.

Do you have a link to a video of Bush's act?

 

[Dark Jaguar]

Hey I like Dane Cook!



But wow, that sure was funny for all those reasons.

 

[jenspen]

It was cruel, thrilling, terrifying and I watched it with unholy glee.

 

[punchdrunk]

Do you have a link to a video of Bush's act?

The best I can come up with is to go to C-Span's website ( www.c-span.org ) and try the "White House Correspondents Dinner" link. It's an RTSP link and I'm not having any luck with it, but maybe you will get it to work for you. Since I wasn't able to get the link to work for me, I have no idea if the entire video footage is on it. Alternately, you might check the C-SPAN networks, if you get them; they may still be showing it (on weekends they sometimes show replays).

 

[roger]

since you seem not to have clicked on the link I provided, I ask you to name one powerful Dem he could have "roasted". The left has been so completely marginalized, there is little to mock them for, other than powerlessnes.

Hilary. Powerful because of her last name, because she represents NY, and because she is going to be a player in the next presidential election. And ripe for satire.


I would suggest just about anything uttered by Ann Coulter as an example of political satire aimed at the Dems. Or, if you happen to agree with her assessments (don't know your affiliation, and don't care - not germane to this argument), surely they can be twisted into satire.

Heck, go to her latest column. Imagine these same arguments goosed a bit by a comedian with skill: http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/welcome.cgi

There's always plenty of material in the Limosine Liberal category.

I do fully agree that the Rep. are easier to satire merely because they currently hold power. I just feel a good comedian shouldn't need to limit themselves to the easy jokes.

 

[Snide]

Hilary. Powerful because of her last name, because she represents NY, and because she is going to be a player in the next presidential election. And ripe for satire.


I would suggest just about anything uttered by Ann Coulter as an example of political satire aimed at the Dems. Or, if you happen to agree with her assessments (don't know your affiliation, and don't care - not germane to this argument), surely they can be twisted into satire.

Heck, go to her latest column. Imagine these same arguments goosed a bit by a comedian with skill: http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/welcome.cgi

But that would be just staying in character right? That is, he would really be mocking Coulter, not the left...or am I missing something?

 

[roger]

All from http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/bldailyfeed3.htm:

"The Democrats said they have a plan to find the leader of al Qaeda. Find the leader of al Qaeda? They don't even have a plan to find the leader of the Democrats." --Jay Leno

"In his latest audio tape Osama bin Laden says that the Bush administration is evil, it's made up excused to attack Iraq, and is obsessed with Middle Eastern oil. If Osama bin Laden keeps talking like that he could wind up the Democratic frontrunner." --Jay Leno

"John Kerry said this week he's thinking about running for president again, but he hasn't made up his mind as of yet. Well, that should put an end to rumors that he's indecisive." --Jay Leno

"Apparently over the weekend, Kerry was up in his attic and found a whole box full of long, boring speeches he forgot to gave in 2004. Why waste them?" --Jay Leno


"Queen Elizabeth turned 80 over the weekend. The queen of course a figurehead who holds no political power. Or, as we call them in this country, Democrats." --Jay Leno

"Here's a bizarre story. I'll try to put this as delicately as possible. A woman in El Salvador was arrested for smuggling into prison a hand grenade inside her vagina. Although I guess technically at that point it's no longer a hand grenade. ... In a related story, earlier today former President Bill Clinton announced he's going to El Salvador to to look for weapons of mass destruction." --Jay Leno

"Today an intruder made it on the White House Lawn. We want to build a fence along the entire Mexican border? We can't keep people out of the White House. This guy got close, but he couldn't get in to the White House. So they believe he's probably a Democrat."

"Sen. Hillary Clinton said she is in favor of building a wall between Mexico and the United States. After hearing this, former President Bill Clinton said, 'She means a metaphorical wall of silence and resentment. Trust me.'" --Conan O'Brien


"At the national portrait gallery in Washington, D.C. new portraits were unveiled of former President Clinton and First Lady Hillary Clinton. The Smithsonian said that the portraits of Bill and Hillary will not hang in the same room. Boy, talk about art reflecting life." --Jay Leno

Some comedians are still targeting Democrats. We can argue about the strength of the jokes, and point out many target people no longer in power, but if you want to joke about dems you can.

 

[roger]

But that would be just staying in character right? That is, he would really be mocking Coulter, not the left...or am I missing something?

No, I didn't mean mock Coulter, I meant turn them into genuine jokes, with no reference to Coulter whatsoever. I.e. the phrase "Ann Coulter said last night..." would never cross the comedian's lips, or anything like it. Mock what the democrats are doing, not mock the Republicans take on what democrats are doing.

 

[zakur]

Do you have a link to a video of Bush's act?

Post #18 in this thread.

 

[BryanLower]

Evidently, the issue is that at the White House Correspondents' Dinner, the comedy is traditionally supposed to be aimed more or less equally at both the president and the press. It seems that this year, it was almost all aimed at the Bush.

Link.

Allow me to take a page from the conservative book about how to respond with someone complains that you're being to harsh on the other side.

"Wah."

Real tough guys they are.

 

[BPSCG]

Allow me to take a page from the conservative book about how to respond with someone complains that you're being to harsh on the other side.

"Wah."

Real tough guys they are.

As I said, it wasn't an issue of being tough on Bush; Imus was just as nasty to Clinton (and, IIRC, Hillary's reaction was described as "icy"). It was a question of being tough only on Bush. The tradition - no, not a hard-and-fast rule - at this thing is that it's supposed to be making fun at prez and press.

Maybe Colbert didn't know about that tradition, but whoever is the featured speaker from now on will know, because if future presidents know they're in for a one-sided bashing when they show up, they'll stop coming. And then you might as well not have the party.

ETA: Transcript of Imus's speech. Warning: Don't have liquids in your mouth near the keyboard while reading.

 

[Luke T.]

What I want to know is...how did they talk George Clooney into coming?

 

[Furious]

As I said, it wasn't an issue of being tough on Bush; Imus was just as nasty to Clinton (and, IIRC, Hillary's reaction was described as "icy"). It was a question of being tough only on Bush. The tradition - no, not a hard-and-fast rule - at this thing is that it's supposed to be making fun at prez and press.

Maybe Colbert didn't know about that tradition, but whoever is the featured speaker from now on will know, because if future presidents know they're in for a one-sided bashing when they show up, they'll stop coming. And then you might as well not have the party.

Is this more or less egregious than redistricting in non-census years or changing Senate rules about filibustering?

 

[BryanLower]

As I said, it wasn't an issue of being tough on Bush; Imus was just as nasty to Clinton (and, IIRC, Hillary's reaction was described as "icy"). It was a question of being tough only on Bush. The tradition - no, not a hard-and-fast rule - at this thing is that it's supposed to be making fun at prez and press.

Wah.

'sides, Colbert did make fun of the press, just not in the way you or the president wanted him to. So I guess it's time for a new tradition! The President approves all jokes! That would be par for this administration, wouldn't it?

Maybe Colbert didn't know about that tradition, but whoever is the featured speaker from now on will know, because if future presidents know they're in for a one-sided bashing when they show up, they'll stop coming. And then you might as well not have the party.

Are you kidding? Future presidents would pass up the chance to show that they can laugh at themselves? No... only if they're idiots and don't care about their public image. Or if they're incredibly thin skinned.

 

[Snide]

No, I didn't mean mock Coulter, I meant turn them into genuine jokes, with no reference to Coulter whatsoever. I.e. the phrase "Ann Coulter said last night..." would never cross the comedian's lips, or anything like it. Mock what the democrats are doing, not mock the Republicans take on what democrats are doing.

I don't mean to be obtuse, but from what I'm reading, you mean say basically what Ann Coulter already says, but make it even more over-the-top so that it would obviously be a joke. But I'm saying that's what he already does, and thus really isn't mocking Democrats; he's mocking conservative pundits.

A better example would be to take what Michael Moore might say, go over-the-top with that, so it then is obviously mocking left-wingers, and not the actual target of the statements (Bush, etc.).

Unless, again, I'm really slow and don't understand what you're suggesting. Maybe type slower for me!

 

[roger]

I don't mean to be obtuse, but from what I'm reading, you mean say basically what Ann Coulter already says, but make it even more over-the-top so that it would obviously be a joke. But I'm saying that's what he already does, and thus really isn't mocking Democrats; he's mocking conservative pundits.

A better example would be to take what Michael Moore might say, go over-the-top with that, so it then is obviously mocking left-wingers, and not the actual target of the statements (Bush, etc.).

Unless, again, I'm really slow and don't understand what you're suggesting. Maybe type slower for me!

Okay, as slow as I can type ...

Actually I mean make it under-the-top, so to speak. She was probably a bad choice of a critic of democrats, since she is basically a caricature of herself. But take her comparing the profit rate of oil companies on gas (9 cents a gallon) vs the tax rates proposed by democrats (25 cents), and point out that Democrats are up in arms about recent price raises hurting the poor. A suggest a skilled comedian could do something with that material at the expense of Democrats. Maybe I just have an odd idea of what constitutes comedy

Implicit in my point is that there are actually valid points hiding in her overblown rhetoric, or valid enough for comedic purposes (which usually places fast and loose with the truth, or at least the implications of certain facts). For example, I sure everyone, dem and rep both, could think up plenty of things that might lead somebody to hold that position about taxing gas, even if they didn't agree with them. But that is true of just about any political joke except the toilet based ones (Clinton getting a blowjob type stuff).

 

[bjb]

I watched the show with my wife and we thought it was amazing. I do have to agree that he could have gone after the Democrats a bit more. The first 10 minutes were definitely savage enough as was the closing audition tape for press secretary. He did have some criticism for Democrats and others, but it was pretty darn mild by comparison. Overall, the audience laughed more than I thought they did based on the reports I read before I saw the show. There were some grumpy people in the audience, though, but Judge Scalia was laughing so hard I thought he was going to wet himself.

As for George Bush being insulted, he may have been, assuming he understood the jokes. I wonder if he knew what the Gannon button was for. Contrary to those other reports, I felt George Bush didn't look upset after the speech was over, considering he had just recieved the most severe reaming of any U.S. president.

There are some YouTube links to the Colbert speech here:

http://www.thankyoustephencolbert.org/