"Jesus Camp"

[BPSCG]

Noted and dismissed as an ad hom argument.

Yeah, sometimes I get that way when I'm called an apologist for violent fundamentalist Christian wackjobs. Not that calling me an apologist for violent fundamentalist Christian wackjobs would be an ad hominem argument, of course...

Have anything of substance?

Sure, the minute you say something that isn't so ridiculous it makes me spew my morning coffee through my nose onto the keyboard. I was thinking about asking you to come over here and clean it up, but then I remembered you'd been drinking and posting again and you might spew something up yourself and make things even worse.

 

[AWPrime]

So the US gov is keeping the christian loons in check, but what will happen if the government falls (nothing lasts forever you know)?

 

[BPSCG]

So the US gov is keeping the christian loons in check, but what will happen if the government falls (nothing lasts forever you know)?

Oh fer petesake, what will happen if the bolt that keeps your ass attached to your back falls out? If the U.S. government falls, then you're talking about the greatest societal upheaval this country has ever seen, where the Constitution is no longer in effect.

In that case, the violent fundamentalists - and all the other tiny, violent crackpot groups - will be in a lot of trouble, because they will be vastly outnumbered and they are far from being the only people with firearms. The Constitution and the government don't only protect us from them - it protects them from us.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

BPSCG,

"Him" refers to McVeigh.

I don't think there's as much of a distinction between the Extremists, and the fundamentalists. Christian fundamentalists, in power right now, are trying to make this country more intolerant of atheism, homosexuality, and less welcoming to immigration. The only distinction I can see between those people we agree are whackos and those in power in right now is the methods they would care to use to marginalize segments of society, not their goals, modivations, or justifications.

 

[BPSCG]

BPSCG,

"Him" refers to McVeigh.

Oh. Well, you haven't shown any persuasive evidence that McVeigh was driven by religious convictions, and everything I've ever seen about him said he was simply a rabid anti-government loon.

I don't think there's as much of a distinction between the Extremists, and the fundamentalists.

Who are these "extremists" you speak of?

Christian fundamentalists, in power right now,

Could you do us all a big favor? Could you identify the top ten "Christian fundamentalists in power right now" for us? Everyone keeps saying Christian fundamentalists are in power, as if it's actually true. I'd like to see a list as well as an explanation why they are fundamentalists (and just saying "He's a Southern Baptist" won't wash - Mrs. BPSCG's mother is a devout Southern Baptist, but by no stretch a fundamentalist).

are trying to make this country more intolerant of atheism, homosexuality,

Interesting that the White House just had its annual Easter Egg Roll and for the first time, gays were there with their kids, openly advertising their homosexuality. I don't recall any of them being carted off in cuffs or thrown out. Now why do you suppose that is?

and less welcoming to immigration.

You'd better read up on the issue, because the HFIC (Head Fundie In Charge) at 1600 Penn is at odds with much of his own party; he favors relaxed immigration laws. Now why do you suppose that is?

The only distinction I can wee between those people we agree are whackos and those in power in right now is the methods they would care to use to marginalize segments of society, not their goals, modivations, or justifications.

Oh, cripes. You want another Homer Simpson? I got lots.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

You have obviously failed to read the posts where I took back the assertion that McVeigh was religiously modivated, though I stand by the fact that he had links Christianty Identity.

I'm not going to run around making lists for your amusement. Senators such as Santorum have a place in the making of laws, and Judges like Scalia rule on them, and Bush, who callously insults and seeks to limit the rights of atheists and homosexuals runs the White House.

 

[BPSCG]

I'm not going to run around making lists for your amusement.

Kinda what I expected you to say (in lieu of saying, "Oh, I don't know...").

Here; I've made a list of people who are arguably the most powerful people in the United States government right now, in no particular order. Why don't you tell me which ones are "fundamentalist Christians"?

1. George W. Bush - President
2. Bill Frist - Senate Majority Leader
3. Dennis Hastert - Speaker of the House
4. Donald Rumsfeld - Secretary of Defense
5. Condoleezza Rice - Secretary of State
6. Dick Cheney - Vice-President
7. John Roberts - Chief Justice
8. Alberto Gonzales - Attorney General
9. Harry Reid - Senate Minority Leader
10. Nancy Pelosi - House Minority lLeader
11. John Boehner - House Majority Leader
12. John Warner - Chair, Senate Armed Services Committee
13. Ben Bernanke - Chairman, Federal Reserve Board
14. Judd Gregg - Chairman, Senate Budget Committee
15. Richard Lugar - Chairman, Senate Foreign Relations Committee
16. Arlen Specter - Chairman, Senate Judiciary Committee
17. Jerry Lewis - Chairman, House Appropriations Committee
18. Jim Nussle - Chairman, House Budget Committee
19. James Sensenbrenner - Chairman, House Judiciary Committee
20. Bill Thomas - Chairman, House Ways and Means Committee

Judges like Scalia rule on them

I wasn't aware that Scalia was a fundamentalist. Could you please supply a citation?

 

[Tony]

Yeah, sometimes I get that way when I'm called an apologist for violent fundamentalist Christian wackjobs. Not that calling me an apologist for violent fundamentalist Christian wackjobs would be an ad hominem argument, of course...

It's not, it's an objective fact, as evidenced by your statements on this thread. You just don't like facing reality.

Sure, the minute you say something that isn't so ridiculous it makes me spew my morning coffee through my nose onto the keyboard. I was thinking about asking you to come over here and clean it up, but then I remembered you'd been drinking and posting again and you might spew something up yourself and make things even worse.

I take that as a "no".

Continue on with apologizing for fundy christian wackjobs. Hell, you're probably one.

 

[BPSCG]

Continue on with apologizing for fundy christian wackjobs. Hell, you're probably one.

Well, it's obvious what you're trying to do. You saw Cleon made my sig line by calling me a racist and you got all envious and figured anything he could do, so could you, so you call me a "fundy christian (sic) wackjob."

Sorry, I'm bumping up on the 500 character limit, and your slur isn't any better than Cleon's, and not nearly as imaginative as Orwell's, so you're S.O.L. Keep working at it, though; if you want to improve your invective, I recommend you have someone start reading Mark Twain to you regularly.

 

[Tony]

Well, it's obvious what you're trying to do. You saw Cleon made my sig line by calling me a racist and you got all envious and figured anything he could do, so could you, so you call me a "fundy christian (sic) wackjob."

Sorry, I'm bumping up on the 500 character limit, and your slur isn't any better than Cleon's, and not nearly as imaginative as Orwell's, so you're S.O.L. Keep working at it, though; if you want to improve your invective, I recommend you have someone start reading Mark Twain to you regularly.

*yawn*

Come back when you have something meaning to say fundy.

 

[cbish]

Why don't you tell me which ones are "fundamentalist Christians"?

1. George W. Bush - President
2. Bill Frist - Senate Majority Leader
3. Dennis Hastert - Speaker of the House
4. Donald Rumsfeld - Secretary of Defense
5. Condoleezza Rice - Secretary of State
6. Dick Cheney - Vice-President
7. John Roberts - Chief Justice
8. Alberto Gonzales - Attorney General
9. Harry Reid - Senate Minority Leader
10. Nancy Pelosi - House Minority lLeader
11. John Boehner - House Majority Leader
12. John Warner - Chair, Senate Armed Services Committee
13. Ben Bernanke - Chairman, Federal Reserve Board
14. Judd Gregg - Chairman, Senate Budget Committee
15. Richard Lugar - Chairman, Senate Foreign Relations Committee
16. Arlen Specter - Chairman, Senate Judiciary Committee
17. Jerry Lewis - Chairman, House Appropriations Committee
18. Jim Nussle - Chairman, House Budget Committee
19. James Sensenbrenner - Chairman, House Judiciary Committee
20. Bill Thomas - Chairman, House Ways and Means Committee

I wasn't aware that Scalia was a fundamentalist. Could you please supply a citation?

Here's a couple of fun websites to mull over:http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2004/10/27/senate_ratings.xls
http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2004/10/27/house_ratings.xls

 

[BPSCG]

Come back when you have something meaning to say fundy.

Oh, BTW, Manny asked us to pass this on to you.

 

[a_unique_person]

Well, it's obvious what you're trying to do. You saw Cleon made my sig line by calling me a racist and you got all envious and figured anything he could do, so could you, so you call me a "fundy christian (sic) wackjob."

Sorry, I'm bumping up on the 500 character limit, and your slur isn't any better than Cleon's, and not nearly as imaginative as Orwell's, so you're S.O.L. Keep working at it, though; if you want to improve your invective, I recommend you have someone start reading Mark Twain to you regularly.

orwell was apologising to you. Which is funny, since you made such a big deal of apologising to someone else, and expecting a pat on the back for it.

 

[BPSCG]

Here's a couple of fun websites to mull over:http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2004/10/27/senate_ratings.xls
http://www.grist.org/news/maindish/2004/10/27/house_ratings.xls

Thanks! This is neat - I love this kind of thing.

I took the average scores from each of the five columns in each spreadsheet, then got the average of those averages. I think that gives a really interesting idea of how conservative or liberal the House and Senate are.

The average Senate score was 50.40 on a 0-100 scale, with Ted Kennedy at zero and Orrin Hatch at 100.

The average House rating was 52.35, indicating the House is somewhat more conservative than the Senate.

I'm sure there are similar rankings by liberal groups. I wonder if they'd show similar, but inverse results.

 

[BPSCG]

orwell was apologising to you.

Yeah, that's the second time you've said that, but search as I might, I can't seem to find the words, "I'm sorry," or "I apologize" in that sig line. Could you show me where it is?

Which is funny, since you made such a big deal of apologising to someone else, and expecting a pat on the back for it.

Could you please show me where I indicated I expected a pat on the back for apologizing to Dog Boots? I castigated him, harshly, wrongly, and at length, in public; he was entitled to nothing less than a public apology. Or do you believe one should criticize publicly and apologize only privately?

 

[UserGoogol]

The average for Senate Republicans was 92.5, and the House of Representatives is too big for my crappy Excel skills to be able to get a number out of it.

Of course, this doesn't imply that Republicans are all fundy loonies, but it says something. Of course, the most conservative interpretation of the data (the religious right likes Republicans more than it likes Democrats) isn't especially surprising, but still, 92.5 is a big number.

 

[a_unique_person]

Yeah, that's the second time you've said that, but search as I might, I can't seem to find the words, "I'm sorry," or "I apologize" in that sig line. Could you show me where it is?
Could you please show me where I indicated I expected a pat on the back for apologizing to Dog Boots? I castigated him, harshly, wrongly, and at length, in public; he was entitled to nothing less than a public apology. Or do you believe one should criticize publicly and apologize only privately?

He said that he was aware he said something just for the sake having a dig at you, making conciliatory noises, it's pretty obvious. instead of seeing if he was prepared to make a formal apology, you take his statement and use it to humiliate him. When you apologised, you didnt' do it in the thread, or via PM, but started a whole new thread in a community.

 

[Mycroft]

Yeah, that's the second time you've said that, but search as I might, I can't seem to find the words, "I'm sorry," or "I apologize" in that sig line. Could you show me where it is?
Could you please show me where I indicated I expected a pat on the back for apologizing to Dog Boots? I castigated him, harshly, wrongly, and at length, in public; he was entitled to nothing less than a public apology. Or do you believe one should criticize publicly and apologize only privately?

As much as it kills me to agree with AUP and even more so in defense of Ex Lion Tamer Orwell, the statement was an admission of wrong-doing and was conciliatory in tone.

He is, of course, completely nutters on the Dog Boots issue. That was a flash of class an no amount of paranoid seething can make it otherwise.

 

[BPSCG]

As much as it kills me to agree with AUP and even more so in defense of Ex Lion Tamer Orwell, the statement was an admission of wrong-doing and was conciliatory in tone.

Okay, let's put this one to bed for good, shall we?

1. I honestly don't recall what Orwell's "dig" was, and I can't seem to be able to find it in its original context in a reasonable amount of time. Let's just say he probably didn't say anything really horribly insulting to me, because only a_u_p, Cleon, and Tony have ever done that. I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing Orwell just made the same kind of wiserack most of us do here, which gets passed over quickly because nobody truly takes much offense, if any. If I demanded apologies for every time someone launched a mild insult, I'd be doing little else.
2. Orwell's jibe isn't there as an example of his rudeness - he's no worse than many here, and better than some - but because of the last four words, which I thought were hilarious.
3. A statement is not an apology without some form of one of the following three phrases: "I apologize," "I am sorry," or "I regret." And even if the last two are present, they do not necessarily constitute an apology, where the apology is not for the offender's action, but for the offendee's reaction ("I'm sorry if you were offended"). There's the old joke, "Johnny, apologize for calling your sister 'stupid.'" "Aw, gee, sis, I'm sorry you're stupid."

So Orwell did not offend me (as far as I can remember), he did not apologize, and, as far as I'm concerned, he doesn't owe me one.

Okay?

Now can we get back to why Bush is an eeeeeeeeeevil fundy Christian vampire pederast bent on subjugating the world?

 

[BPSCG]

The average for Senate Republicans was 92.5, and the House of Representatives is too big for my crappy Excel skills to be able to get a number out of it.

Of course, this doesn't imply that Republicans are all fundy loonies, but it says something. Of course, the most conservative interpretation of the data (the religious right likes Republicans more than it likes Democrats) isn't especially surprising, but still, 92.5 is a big number.

The average for Senate Democrats was 11.4...*

Of course, this doesn't imply that Democrats are all commie atheists, but it says something. Of course, the most conservative interpretation of the data (the religious right likes Democrats less than it likes Republicans) isn't especially surprising, but still, 11.4 is a tiny number.

*(I put Independent Jeffords with the Dems, since he votes with their caucus.)