Loose Change

[TjW]

<snip>
Which is basically why tens of thousands of volunteers, rescure team and clean up crew are ridiculed with health problems from breathing in toxins from the dust from materials that used to be what was inside the building after the EPA (or was told by the white house) lied to the ground zero crew that the air was safe to breath.

Really? Who is ridiculing them about their health problems?

 

[CptColumbo]

temptation



Hahaha oh man you made me laugh. That's a messed up way of looking at it. If my gut intuition is right, then we get justice for those who were killed in sept 11 as there hasn't been any since osama, the supposedly perpetrator, hasn't yet been caught and I don't think the bush administration has any real interest in attempting to capture him.

I'm sorry, are you saying that since we can't find Osama Bin Laden, we should accuse someone easier to catch?

If so, that's the craziest f---ing thing I've ever heard!

 

[kookbreaker]

Here ya go
However I came across a message board and thankfully one of the posters copy and pasted some good info that you should check out...

Peter Tully, the president of tully construction and Mark Loizeaux the president of controlled demolition, inc both who worked at the ground zero during clean up addressed the molten steel pool in the rubble.

Yes. I have heard this too. Unfortuneately for you, the information was already second or third hand by the time it got to them.

Name of the poster is twitchy.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread9247/pg12

Unfortunately I can't find any source proving that nist did acknowledge the molten steel pool but never analyzed it.

Because NIST cannot analyze something that exists soley in the imagination of CTs.

 

[Pardalis]

I just think sept 11 may be the best tool to overthrow them.

Seeing 9/11 as a tool, THAT'S A MESSED UP WAY OF SEEING THINGS!

The Bush administration used it for their political agenda, SO ARE YOU!

 

[chipmunk stew]

So who would you choose to do this investigatiion?
And are you actually aware of all the organizations that have participated? For example, some of the organizations involved in the investiagtion of WTC 7 are:

–The Structural Engineering Institute of the American Society of Civil Engineers (SEI/ASCE)
–The Society of Fire Protection Engineers (SFPE)
–The National Fire Protection Association (NFPA)
–The American Institute of Steel Construction (AISC)
–The Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat (CTBUH)
–The Structural Engineers Association of New York

Are these groups suspect to you? And if so, how would you replace them? Would you be more comfortable if the investigation was not conducted by Americans?

Has your research turned up evidence that anyone outside of the "official suspects" is complicit in the events of 9/11 in any way? That's what we're talking about here.

Bump, for geggy

 

[geggy]

FEMA and American society of civil engineers both have ties, don't they? FEMA is considered a governemnt agency, I bet they cherry picked those on the list.

Polaris...sorry to say this but you're an idiot. And back up to one of my older posts on "conspiracy theory" in this thread and you'll see that in which you've copied and pasted what you thought I said, and I didn't, was written by a reporter who is affiliated with informationclearinghouse.info. I don't agree on most part of what was written although it may hold true in Iraq. Do you realize the US is falling deeper into debt at nearly 9 trillion dollars, up from 2.6 trillion dollars, since bush took power? And guess who is stuck with paying that debt. Federal spending is currently at a whopping 26 trillion dollars by the bush administration alone. From the first president to bill clinton, only 20 trillion was spent. Don't you find that alarming? Oh you're canadian right? What does it matter to you anyway

Stellafane...like I said earlier in this thread, it doesn't make you crazy if you think sept 11 was a falseflag terrorism, it only sounds crazy to you and actually not an impossibility. Falseflag terrorism have been performed all over the world several times in the past, why not in the US? Funny thing about the london bombing. al Qaeda was accused of the attack but investigators came to a conclusion that Qaeda had nothing to do with it. It's all over the BBC website.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

First of all I don't think the bush administraion are evil. They're just bunch of wimps giving in as preys of evil. Nothing corrupts a soul more than greed and a bottle of jameson.

I think my purpose since that I clearly see something is wrong with the official story of sept 11, I'm willing to contribute to the society by convincing others not to believe in the official story and multiply the movement into a larger group demanding to reopen a more honest and serious investigation by independant investigators that has no ties to the US government. The reason why I'm still here is because I like this country too much just to pack up and leave. I'm willing to protect it from the bush regime to prevent them for doing any further damage to the US as well as the rest of the planet with their lies, lootin' rampage, destructive behavoir and imcompetence. And if you don't see the soulless, convinning bast...s that they are, then you're must be crazy . I just think sept 11 may be the best tool to overthrow them.

If you are so keen on helping America; stop looking for bogeymen to chase after and do something truly productive: volunteer at a shelter, lend time to Habitat for Humanity, join Big Brothers/Big Sisters, go pick up litter, read to kids at the local library, or; if you must do something in the political arena; join a PAC or NGO that is having real, demonstrateble, effects on the government.

 

[Pardalis]

Polaris...sorry to say this but you're an idiot. And back up to one of my older posts on "conspiracy theory" in this thread and you'll see that in which you've copied and pasted what you thought I said, and I didn't, was written by a reporter who is affiliated with informationclearinghouse.info.

I'm sorry but by the way you posted it, without commenting on it or sourrunding them with these symbols (« »), you fully endorsed it.

I don't agree on most part of what was written

Then why post it as evidence????

(...) if you think sept 11 was a falseflag terrorism, it only sounds crazy to you and actually not an impossibility.

That’s absolutely true. For once you’re talking sense. But you have to prove it IS a possibility.

geggy, you seem to have a solid opinion about US politics, that's you're right and I acknowledge it. BUT THIS THREAD CONCERNS THE 9/11 ATTACKS AND THE CONSPIRACY THEORIES. If you want to start a thread regarding the Bush administration and it's flaws, go right ahead, I'll probably agree with most of what you'll say. But so far, nothing of what you have said as anything to do with 9/11.

Oh you're canadian right? What does it matter to you anyway

It's true I'm a Canadian, Quebecer, and it does matter to me that you liars and paranoid freaks dessicrate the memory of the innocent lives that have been lost on september 11 2001. It’s an insult to intelligence. 9/11 was an attack on the civilised world (wich includes Québec BTW) and an unprecedented coup against the human will and freedom.

 

[Pardalis]

It's pardalis by the way.

 

[geggy]

Oh I'm sorry panteris, since I'm new to this board, I'll try my best to make it clearer that when I'm posting a snippet from an article, I will use that symbol you've displayed. I'm just more accustomed to the php boards. Because I said I don't agree with most of the article doesn't mean I don't agree with the entire points made in the article.

The reason I called you an idiot was because you're accusing me of provoking the victims of sept 11 as the reason to overthrow the bush regime. I don't see how it is disrespectful to the victims of the attacks to think the bush regime may have had hands in the tragedy. I think it's actually more respectful to the victims to find who the real culprit is so justice can be brought to the victims. Now imagine if someone close to you was killed, the person who is your father (government) that did the deed pointed someone else as the culprit to divert the attention away from himself, it's most likely you will fall for it because, well, it was your father who told you. The accused (osama) denies it and said he was innocent, and you're finding clues that something is not adding up. The clues leads to your father, and you refuse to believe it, you're experiencing a full blown suspension of belief. Then it becomes self evident that your father may have been the real culprit and you accept the fact.

Tomorrow when I get to work at my computer I will post the strange anamolies surrounding osama bin laden and we can finally talk about more of my "paranoid lies" relating to 911.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

...Tomorrow when I get to work at my computer...

May I ask, what do you do for a living?

 

[Pardalis]

Oh I'm sorry panteris

it's PARDALIS ! lol

Because I said I don't agree with most of the article doesn't mean I don't agree with the entire points made in the article.

When you post something, you have to tell us what this post means to you, you have to comment it, not just throw it at us. But I get your point.

The reason I called you an idiot was because you're accusing me of provoking the victims of sept 11 as the reason to overthrow the bush regime.

I understand, I will also avoid name calling in the future. But you do have to admit that you said this:

I just think sept 11 may be the best tool to overthrow them.

The clues leads to your father, and you refuse to believe it, you're experiencing a full blown suspension of belief. Then it becomes self evident that your father may have been the real culprit and you accept the fact.

You have to know that these clues must be verified and not be just speculations. Understand that for us non-Believers (skeptics), we do not take every claim to be a fact until it is proven, and that intuition isn't evidence.

Tomorrow when I get to work at my computer I will post the strange anamolies surrounding osama bin laden and we can finally talk about more of my "paranoid lies" relating to 911.

Looking forward to it, I only wish it will be links from irrefutable and objective sources.

 

[Dr Adequate]

al Qaeda was accused of the attack ...

Obviously they would be the prime suspects in the eyes of the media. However, instead of leaping to this facile conclusion, the government held an investigation.

... but investigators ...

These would be investigators who are not part of TEH CONSPIRACY, yes? Despite working for the British Government? Right?

... came to a conclusion that Qaeda had nothing to do with it ...

Obviously, there is more than one Muslim terror group in existence.

It's all over the BBC website.

So you say. However, I just searched the BBC website for the term "London bombings" and found this. A feat of research which took just over ten seconds.

There are several indications of the al-Qaeda connection.

Firstly, the Arabic TV channel al-Jazeera, which received the tape, attributes it to "the al-Qaeda organisation."

Second, the fact that Khan's statement is accompanied on the tape by one from Zawahri. This strongly supports the view that Khan must have made contact with al-Qaeda elements, probably when he was in Pakistan from November last year to February this year.

It is possible, even probable, that Khan made the tape in Pakistan and came back to the UK determined on his course.

Third, Khan refers on the tape to the al-Qaeda leadership when he talks about "today's heroes beloved Sheikh Osama Bin Laden, Dr Ayman al-Zawahri and Abu Musab al-Zarqawi". Zarqawi is the leader of the al-Qaeda faction in Iraq.

Before you told us what was "all over the BBC website", perhaps you should have looked at the BBC website.

 

[chipmunk stew]

FEMA and American society of civil engineers both have ties, don't they? FEMA is considered a governemnt agency, I bet they cherry picked those on the list.

ASCE is independent, as are the rest on the list. Look them up.

But regardless, the question was, who would you choose to conduct the investigation?

 

[Belz...]

I know you guys have rights to mock me on my hypothesis of the strange collapsing of WTC as it is my weakest point because I have no experience in engineering field, therefore I'm not keen on speaking technical launguage of engineering. But it seems too clear that the buildings came down with explosives.

You admit that you don't know anything about structural engineering. Don't you think this means that what "seems too clear" may be wrong ?

It's extremely difficult now to find any real source because articles and solid info have been dissappearing off the face of the internt and fake info's are planted to muddle in with the real sources...

"I can't provide any evidence for a conspiracy because the conspiracy is covering the evidence up."

That doesn't work, bloke.

Unfortunately I can't find any source proving that nist did acknowledge the molten steel pool but never analyzed it.

Maybe this is because they never aknowledge it. I never saw any molten steel at the site. Can you provide evidence for its existence ?

It's not in my intention to convince any of you that sept 11 was an inside job. That's just my gut intuition.

It's my gut intuition that my consciousness is special, that the earth is flat, that the world is composed of inanimate things that nonetheless have a will of their own, that I'm beign watched right now, and that when I feel better, I am better. But gut feelings are crap. They don't tell you anything about the real world.

There is just too many information availble out there that contadicts the official story and I'd recommend you to do your own research.

Funny man. Isn't it obvious that a lot of people here HAVE done just that ?

 

[Belz...]

First of all I don't think the bush administraion are evil. They're just bunch of wimps giving in as preys of evil. Nothing corrupts a soul more than greed and a bottle of jameson.

Could you provide a clear motive ?

So far, you've given us gut feelings, which are pointless, and mysterious "factoids" that don't point to any conclusion. Any "evidence" presented was debunked.

So, what is it ? Are you trolling, or do you have a coherent hypothesis ?

Merely saying that the government did it because they are nefarious and corrupted is not enough. Perhaps for you, conjecture can be used to construct MORE conjecture, but here we need facts.

Hahaha oh man you made me laugh. That's a messed up way of looking at it. If my gut intuition is right, then we get justice...

No. If your intuition is right, you'd be dead by now, as would anyone on the loose change forum.

 

[Belz...]

FEMA and American society of civil engineers both have ties, don't they? FEMA is considered a governemnt agency, I bet they cherry picked those on the list.

As Chipmunk said, which organisations would do ?

Don't you find that alarming? Oh you're canadian right? What does it matter to you anyway

That's right. We Canadians never care about anything outside our own country. Oh, wait, no...

Falseflag terrorism have been performed all over the world several times in the past, why not in the US? Funny thing about the london bombing. al Qaeda was accused of the attack but investigators came to a conclusion that Qaeda had nothing to do with it. It's all over the BBC website.

That wouldn't mean that there wasn't terrorism involved, and the fact that there WAS an investigation that uncovered that is a good thing, right ?

The reason I called you an idiot was because you're accusing me of provoking the victims of sept 11 as the reason to overthrow the bush regime.

Those were your words.

I don't see how it is disrespectful to the victims of the attacks to think the bush regime may have had hands in the tragedy.

It is if they didn't. Think about it. That's why you must have proof. Otherwise you're just hurting these people more and antagonising people towards the government for no reason.

Now imagine if someone close to you was killed, the person who is your father (government) that did the deed pointed someone else as the culprit to divert the attention away from himself, it's most likely you will fall for it because, well, it was your father who told you. The accused (osama) denies it and said he was innocent, and you're finding clues that something is not adding up. The clues leads to your father, and you refuse to believe it, you're experiencing a full blown suspension of belief. Then it becomes self evident that your father may have been the real culprit and you accept the fact.

FACT. Yes.

 

[pgwenthold]

I've not contributed a lot to this thread, since I don't know a lot about any of it, but I have seen some things here that really bother me about the "conspiracy theorists"

For starters, the fact that some of their information is blatently wrong. Not just an issue of interpretation, but showing evidence of deceit. That "molten steel" picture that was posted is the best example of where some CTer somewhere has been dishonest. There are other examples of just blatent falsehoods from the CT side. I haven't seen any exposed "lies" of the standard model. I see that CTers disagree with interepretation, but no misrepresentation of simple facts. The fact that the CT folks are making things up bothers me alot.

Then there is the whole "why" aspect. The one that I recall the best is the claim that WTC7 was a controlled demolition. Someone asked a really interesting question that I haven't seen answered:

Why in the world would the government hide a controlled demolition of WTC7 as part of 9/11, when they went on later and did a deliberate demolition of all the other buildings that were damaged beyond repair? That just doesn't make any sense at all. Why not just destroy WTC7 along with the rest of the buildings? Even if there were "sensitive material" in it, 1) the fact that it is a hazard zone means that it is off limits to everyone, so who's gping to see it? The only people who have access are those who can access the information in the rubble, anyway. Besides, if you want to destroy the material, 2) why not just send it through the shredder? A lot more effective. Of course, 3) most of the contents were already destroyed by the fire raging out of control, so there wasn't going to be anything to find but charcoal.

So why destroy the building and cover it up?

ETA: BTW, there is an article about the Loosers in the USA Today. They talk a little about the popularity of the conspiracy theories, but don't take it seriously. They point out that most of the claims are refuted by facts (and even cite the Journals about the weakening of steel) and note that inconvenient facts are just part of the coverup.

 

[aggle-rithm]

The reason why I'm still here is because I like this country too much just to pack up and leave. I'm willing to protect it from the bush regime to prevent them for doing any further damage to the US as well as the rest of the planet with their lies, lootin' rampage, destructive behavoir and imcompetence.

Plus, if you left this country, you would still have to deal with the lies, lootin', rampage, etc., of the country you move to. And you would probably not have the civil liberties you enjoy in the US (Just ask Randi why he left Canada!).

And if you don't see the soulless, convinning bast...s that they are, then you're must be crazy . I just think sept 11 may be the best tool to overthrow them.

A word of advice -- intent to commit treason is not something that you want to blab about on the internet.

 

[Mongrel]

Let's work with kiddie diagrams, shall we ?

Floor X+1 ------------------
Office space
Floor X ------------------

Do you agree that in "office space" we have air ?

What happens when X+1 collapses onto X ? Like so:

Floor X+1 ------------------
Floor X ------------------

Where does "Office space" go ? Does air compress and wind up in the rubble ? NO! It's shot OUTwards and carries dust and debris along with it. Get it ?

I've always thought a good, simple and graphic demonstration to show the above effect is;

Take a pack of gelatine dessert (whichever flavour you prefer) and follow packet instructions to make and set, overnight is best.

Take a serving spoon and place a large, solid piece of dessert in your left hand. Your left hand should be at about stomach height with the palm facing the ceiling

Keeping your left hand still bring down your right hand as if clapping. Repeat as often as desired.

Clean up mess and eat remainder of dessert.