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Loose Change

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Pardalis said:
Oh, and please geggy, base your arguments on real facts and events that actually DID happen...
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I posted a link of the rise of the neocons several times in this thread. I thought it was very well laid out with solid proof that these guys are bunch o' sicko's...I'll copy and paste the entire thing cuz I doubt any of you really clicked on the link...

Edited by Darat: 
Edited for breach of Rule 4.
 
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Theft of trillions of dollars...?

Testimony before the House Appropriations Committee: Fiscal Year 2002 Defense Budget Request

As Given by Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff General Hugh Shelton, and Comptroller Dov Zakheim, Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, DC, Monday, July 16, 2001.
Source: http://www.dod.gov/speeches/2001/s20010716-secdef2.html

SEC. RUMSFELD: Mr. Congressman, thank you very much. Your question is, of course, right at the heart of an enormously important issue for the Department of Defense. We have a panel in the Quadrennial Defense Review on this subject. We have met with it twice in the last two weeks. We're obviously going to have to meet with it again. It is a big, broad, complicated subject.

As you know, the Department of Defense really is not in charge of its civilian workforce, in a certain sense. It's the OPM, or Office of Personnel management, I guess. There are all kinds of long- standing rules and regulations about what you can do and what you can't do. I know Dr. Zakheim's been trying to hire CPAs because the financial systems of the department are so snarled up that we can't account for some $2.6 trillion in transactions that exist, if that's believable. And yet we're told that we can't hire CPAs to help untangle it in many respects.

Secretary Rumsfeld Interview with CNN Moneyline
Source: http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2001/t09232001_t0910cnn.html
Monday, September 10, 2001

Rumsfeld: Well, it takes some time. And, indeed, as you know, sometimes you need to invest some money upfront to make savings. For example, we're going to have to revamp our financial system so that we can actually understand what's taking place. At the present time, the financial systems aren't capable of tracking some 2.6 trillion dollars worth of transactions.

Then 9/11 happened and this was never discussed again. Interesting timing..
 
once again, thats NOT evidence!!!!!!

Evidence would be something that PROVES that the buildings were taken down by controlled demolition.
 
Hey, I just heard the undoubted solution, on my radio playing in the background.

The attacks were orchestrated by Bush, in order to force the UK and the rest of the world to adopt the US system of date recording.

(I still keep wondering what the hell happened on 9th November, and have to keep referring to 11th September to remind myself.)

As the comedian said, the London bombers made a pretty crucial error....

Rolfe.
 
Geggy,

All the allegations in the world of political malfeasance on the part of the Bush Administration does not amount to an iota of evidence that the buildings were taken down by explosives planted on the inside.
 
Geggy can't be for real.

He's just having a laugh by making the skeptics here jump through hoops to counter the tens-of-thousands of pieces of so-called evidence. He has to know that all of that rubbish proves absolutely nothing.
 
Any plausible villainy that can be pinned on Bush, I'm listening. The thing is - plausible. Puh-leas.

Couple of weeks ago I decided I'd better go back to the gym and get some value for my subscription. Somewhere in the middle of my laughable fitness assessment, I confessed to the trainer why I'd stopped going. On the evening of 11th September 2001, with all the television channels showing the same thing, I decided I'd better get down the gym regardless. To sit on that exercise bike, watching the towers fall again and again of four different TV screens in front of me. Yes, it spooked me, but four-and-a-half years is a bit excessive.

Then the trainer said, but have you seen the conspiracy theories? They're just jawdropping. (I'd been working through this thread at the time.) He then had to be told why I collapsed over the handlebars of the exercise bike, completely overcome by giggles.

My new excuse is a twisted ankle, but hopefully that won't last as long. Oh wait, I shouldn't have fallen down the stairs like that, how do I explain the torsion force on the ankle, and most telling of all, nothing on the tray I was carrying and nothing I hit at the bottom broke! Obviously a conspiracy. I couldn't have fallen. I must be imagining that pain in my ankle....

Rolfe.
 
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geggy, I'm still waiting for your evidence that the US was behind the 9/11 attacks...

Geeeeze

(I did read the entire post you made BTW)
 
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All you posted here are possible motives to attack Iraq.

YES, the US wanted to invade Iraq for the past 15 years, YES the US have invested interest in Iraq's oil, YES the US used 9/11 as a reason to go to Iraq... We all know that, that's no secret! I know it's wrong, history will judge accordingly.

I see here nothing that proves the 9/11 attacks were orchestrated or enhanced, or specifically kown by the bush Administration.

The US gov (sorry for my lack of synonyms) knew about an impending attack on the US, and that Bin Laden wanted to use airliners as a weapon, that's true. But do you know how many airports there are in the USA? How many possible targets for an attack? How many days there are in a year when an attack could occur?

Them knowing of a very probable attack doesn't imply that they were in on it.
 
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Rolfe said:
Well, maybe, if they had been severed near the base, they would at least have started to topple, before disintegrating on the way down I assume. Indeed, the upper portion of the south tower did indeed start to do exactly that.

What I noticed at the time was how difficult it was to appreciate how high up both towers were actually hit. There was no clear view of the entire height of the things, because the bottom half or so was obscured by the surrounding buildings which were themselves skyscrapers, leading to the optical illusion that they'd been hit almost amidships. Several commentators presented graphics that fostered this misimpression. It was only those who carefully illustrated the entire height of the towers and then plotted the impacts in the correct positions who gave the right image. And both impacts were very high, in the top 10% of the structures. [ETA: Oops, that's not right regarding the south tower - still, both were hit much closer to the top than the bottom, which was my point.] This was where the damage was done.

Why were they going to topple over, again?

Rolfe.
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To topple over, the center of gravity must move outside the supports! that means the center of the building would have to move 110 feet laterally (that's parallel to the floor, for the loosers), minimum. For the whole building to topple, we're only talking 8.5 degrees (which would put the top edge a little bit past the opposide bottom edge. Somebody would probably have noticed that...)
 
Pardalis said:
I don't think Superman would have got there in time:

- Hearing the pilots scream with his super hearing (1 minute)
- Finding a clever way to get out of Lois Lane's company unseen (5 to 10 min)
- Finding a phone booth or other hiding place to change (5 min)
- Change into Superman (30 sec)
- Finding the first highjacked plane (5 min)

we're already at 20 minutes.
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Don't mess with the "S!"
 
geggy said:
But is it possible to use thermite compunds in explosive devices?

How do you explain the molten steel that was glowing orange and burned as long as 5 days at the rubble area of where the three buildings stood?
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It's quite possible to use thermite compunds in explosive devices, but they won't be melting anything. IIRC, the military wants to create nanothermite compounds to increase the explosive power of chemical explosives. they must have more energy per gram than nitrates and fuel or something.

and I haven't heard anything about any molten steel like you're talking about. explain please?

(PRACTICAL INTERNET ADVICE: if you don't want to look like a crazy, crazy, sad little man, remember to never make enormous posts filled with tons of useless pictures or links to clearly irreputable sites. remember kilik?)
 
Underground fires can burn for a lot longer than those fires at Ground Zero. The Centralia Mine fire in Pennsylvania started burning in 1962 and is still going. http://www.offroaders.com/album/centralia/405_Report.htm

As for thermite, here's a real life example of it being used in wartime, in Normandy, 1944, Pointe du Hoc:

"There was nobody at the emplacement. We looked around cautiously and over about a hundred yards away in a corner of a field was a vehicle with what looked like an officer talking to his men. We decided let’s take a chance. I said "Jack, you cover me and I’m going in there and destroy them." All I had was two thermite grenades – his and mine. I went in and put the thermite grenades in the traversing mechanism and that knocked two of them out because that melted their gears in a moment. Then I broke their sights. We ran back to the road...and got all the other thermites from the remainder of my guys manning the roadblock and rushed back and put the grenades in traversing mechanisms, elevation mechanisms, and banged the sights. There was no noise to that. There is no noise to a thermite, so no one saw us." (Leonard Lomell, cited in Remembering D-Day, Personal Histories of Everyday Heroes by Martin Bowman, (HarperCollins 2004), pg. 69. )"

http://europeanhistory.about.com/od/worldwar2/a/Pduhocarticle_3.htm

Thermite is a silent incendiary. It's not an explosive. In this case it's used to fuse metal together, not cut it apart. And if geggy's guess that the WTC was collapsed by thermite, then the sounds we hear cannot have been explosives. Thermite also wouldn't account for the dust clouds claimed to be evidence of controlled demolitions.

The "molten metal" claimed to be found at Ground Zero at the collapse cannot have been steel, because workers were said to have dipped their buckets in it. If it was molten steel, the buckets would have melted too.
 
rwguinn said:
To topple over, the center of gravity must move outside the supports! that means the center of the building would have to move 110 feet laterally (that's parallel to the floor, for the loosers), minimum. For the whole building to topple, we're only talking 8.5 degrees (which would put the top edge a little bit past the opposide bottom edge. Somebody would probably have noticed that...)
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Without doing the sums, it seems to me that might have been possible if damage similar to that inflicted on the south tower had occurred close to the bottom - about where you'd fell a tree. That damage was to one side, and you could see that the part of the tower above the damage begin to topple. However, it was a relatively short segment of tower, and the centre of gravity didn't get far enough over before the whole pancaking effect was triggered.

Given that the damage was so high up, I can see no reason at all for anything to topple over after the initial horizontal force of the plane impacts had dissipated.

Rolfe.
 
geggy said:
I posted a link of the rise of the neocons several times in this thread. I thought it was very well laid out with solid proof that these guys are bunch o' sicko's...I'll copy and paste the entire thing cuz I doubt any of you really clicked on the link...
Click to expand...

Well, that does it for me! They're sickos!!! It MUST be controlled demolition! :rolleyes:
 
Oh yes. Bush is an evil conniving monster (hey, make that evil stupid conniving monster), so he must be deliberately trying to wipe out the inferior races in Africa by poisoning the children with polio vaccine too!

(Oops, that came over significantly more plausible than the WTC CT, I fear!)

Rolfe.
 
Rolfe said:
Oh yes. Bush is an evil conniving monster (hey, make that evil stupid conniving monster), so he must be deliberately trying to wipe out the inferior races in Africa by poisoning the children with polio vaccine too!

(Oops, that came over significantly more plausible than the WTC CT, I fear!)

Rolfe.
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But then, it is not exactly hard to think of something that is significantly more plausible than:

1) Planting extensive demolition charges in both WTC towers.
2) Hijacking (or remote controlling, or whatever) planes to fly into the towers at the exact places to coincide with the effect of the demolition charges.
3) Trigger the demolition charges in the stricken and blazing buildings at exactly the right moment while attracting minimum attention from millions of onlookers.
4) Cover the while thing up, afterwards.

Add to this that the evil and cynical perpetrators of this immensely complex conspiracy apparantly are unable to silence a few disorganized loonies running a private webpage disclosing the deal :rolleyes:.

Come to think of it, I find it hard to think of something less plausible.

Hans
 
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