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Fuel Prices...

When I got my civilian job after retiring from the Navy, I bought a house ten minutes from where I was hired to work. Moved all the way across the country. But I guess I should have anticipated I would be laid off two years later, and that my new home state would have the highest unemployment rate in the country by then and that I would actually end up having to take a job an hour from where I bought my house.

And I should have anticipated that the housing market would go completely haywire and that I would not be able to afford to move closer to my latest job.

And I wish I had the several thousand dollars extra that a hybrid costs.

It is clearly all my fault.
 
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Grammatron said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4942846.stm


That said, I doubt Bush is to blame at all. If you want to blame anyone is people how use more and more gas. Suply, Demand and all.
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I think bush is to blame, along with congress.

We can't drill any new holes anywhere near or even in the us without jumping through hundreds of hoops (but even cuba seems to have no difficulty in doing so in the south atlantic).

The mixture requirements vary from state to state

The government (state mostly) is taking a far bigger slice of the profits (per gallon) than the oil companies

Nuclear power sanity could vastly reduce heating oil/natural gas requirements to free up resources for other energy uses

Refinaries remain at or near max capacity

yada.

eta:

Plus!

They're wasting money on Hydrogen/wind/solar technology

They're all ignoring heavy investment battery technolgy (which actually might work)

Okay, I'm done ranting.
 
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Bush wants to build more refineries. But this is obviously a plot by Halliburton to just make more money.

Don't get me wrong. When I hear a guy from Exxon just retired with a $400 million package with megabuck annual benefits to go with it, I move oil executives to the top of my List of People to Gut Punch.
 
Gas prices seems to be jumping pretty high considering there is a lack of a big event (ex Hurricane wiping out refineries) to account for such a price spike.
 
Rob Lister said:
I think bush is to blame, along with congress.

We can't drill any new holes anywhere near or even in the us without jumping through hundreds of hoops (but even cuba seems to have no difficulty in doing so in the south atlantic).

The mixture requirements vary from state to state

The government (state mostly) is taking a far bigger slice of the profits (per gallon) than the oil companies

Nuclear power sanity could vastly reduce heating oil/natural gas requirements to free up resources for other energy uses

Refinaries remain at or near max capacity

yada.
.
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This has been the situation for a while. The above is nothing new. Why have the last couple years been so different? The price of gas has basically doubled.
 
zenith-nadir said:
Boo Hoo Hoo...now we have to pay $3.50 a gallon...the sky is falling...the sky is falling...SOS! save our SUVs Mr. Bush! ;)

Meanwhile in Holland it's $6.48 USD a gallon, $5.80 USD in Sweden, $5.79 USD in Britain, $4.24 USD in Japan...(cite). $3.50/Gal is getting off easy!

{edited to add}

(heres a cool link gasbuddy.com )
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A couple of thoughts and questions:
* Assuming that the nations in question have all negotiated similar oil import contracts and such, where is the extra cost in countries outside the US being added? Taxes? For what purpose? Would US consumers find the additional tax for equivalent purposes acceptable? Would it be practical?

* An increase in gas prices from USD$3 to USD$3.50 over the last six months or so is a 17% increase. This is regardless of the fuel economy of your vehicle; you are paying 17% more. Taxi prices have gone up because of this. Metro prices (if a valid option for a person) I believe are about the same, but if they are now a better cost alternative it is either an increase in cost of time, or still an increase in cost of $.

* Should people that have made uneducated, or luxury, decisions receive tons of simpathy? Problebly not, but many people have made decisions of necessity or practicallity and are still feeling the pinch.

ETA: There are other economic repurcussions of this increase:
* consumable goods prices are increasing (grocery items and the like)
* manufacturing costs are increasing
* luxury/entertainment/recreation spending is shifting and/or decreasing

I think your oversimplification of the issue does a disservice to a number of people.
 
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Tmy said:
Gas prices seems to be jumping pretty high considering there is a lack of a big event (ex Hurricane wiping out refineries) to account for such a price spike.
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There is a big event. Refineries have to switch over from winter fuel blends and heating oil to summer fuel blends (and there are dozens of different fuel blends required by EPA rules for all the different states and regions within those states), China and India are greedily buying up oil that by all rights should go only to Americans, Nigerian rebels have put that countries oil exports in doubt, and Iran keeps making crazy comments about wiping out Israel while they actively pursue their nuclear program.

But I'm sure all that has nothing at all to do w/ anything... Enron!!!
 
Crossbow said:
Er, I doubt it since that extra money is going to Exxon, Shell, BP, and the other petro companies. I am sure that they will report record, or at least near record, profits again this quater.

If the gas tax was raised and the extra money was being used to develop a good public transportation system, then I expect that they would be happy about that.
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Yes, we all know that the government is a better guardian of your money than those Evil corporations.
RANT! Liberals think any company that has its own interests at heart is Evil, because corporations all have their own interests at heart, and all corporations are Evil except for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting. The corporations that build your houses, clothe your nakedness, feed your child, build your car, and cure your sickness, are all doing this to make money. Liberals think making money is wrong. Liberals think that taking money in the form of taxes is the best way to provide for our social needs. That's how the Department of Housing and Urban Development (not a developer and a home builder) can build that tract of new townhouses on the vacant lot down the street. That's how the Department of Agriculture (not ConAgra) can run the thousands of Official US Government farms that provide your cheap food. That's how the Department of Transportation (not Honda) is providing better, safer cars for you every year.

No, profits are Evil, and those who make them are Evil unless they render unto Caesar all those profits. The best always comes from those who forswear profits. Hence, public housing is better than private - that's why you have chosen public housing instead of private, right? The most famous symbol of transportation built by a non-profit entity is the Yugo. A public school is where you want to send your kids for the best education, and a public hospital is just the place you want to be when you get sick - just like a public restroom is the place to be when your bowels call. And the world's most famous symbol of public agriculture was once known as the Soviet Union.


I feel better now. :)

Look, just because public transportation is there doesn't mean people are going to use it. Until recently, I took the DC metrorail to work because 1) the station is close to my house, 2) door to desk was about 45 minutes, and 3) rail was safe, clean, comfortable, and reliable.

My office relocated a few weeks ago. There's a metrorail station across the road from my office, but if I were to take the train now, it would take about 1:15 door to desk. So I started driving my car (a rice rocket which gets 32 mpg highway, thank you very much), because I can go door to desk in 35 minutes. Yeah, gas is $3.00 a gallon, but it takes me less than half the time to get to work than it would if I were to take the train. Time is money, and at my age, time is also very, very precious.

People forget that this country isn't Europe. It is a vast country, with a widely-scattered population. People live much more closely together in Europe, making public transportation a much more viable option than in the U.S. Germany, for example, is a little over half the size of Texas - but with about four times the population.
 
manny said:
Also without arguing whether it's good or bad, that outcome has definitely occurred. But it is not from unconstrained growth; it is from constrained growth. Municipalities limit land use with minimum plot sizes, place restrictions on townhomes, enforce strict segregation of residential from commercial from industrial uses, etc. all to keep it nice for the kind of town they want to be and unaffordable for the kinds of people who clean their houses and operate their cash registers. In many parts of the country if you wanted to build affordable housing which backs up to the regional mall you literally couldn't do it by law -- that space is restricted by law to other commercial developments or there is an open-space buffer with 3 or 5-to-an-acre maximum density housing on the other side.
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In my city, in the last 5 years, two small clusters of medium- and high-density low-income housing in the city proper, close to downtown on major bus lines, were bulldozed to build middle-class medium-density housing and condominiums. There was a significant amount of rezoning, and now it's impossible to build low-income housing in most of the city. There is one single apartment building being built in one of the more highly-accessible parts of town, but I'm willing to bet that it, since it's near the community college, it ends up being student/shared housing rather than true low-income. The signage and other info doesn't even state unequivocally that it's low-income; merely that it's "targetted" at a "lower-income" demographic.
 
I think a major issue that is getting lost is that the govt has a place in developing infrastructure. Remember that it was govt that built the freeways the railroad etc (yea I know through private industry)

And govt could do something about oil prices as well or at least it's effects.
GPM standards are being held down because the big 2 don't want to invest in it so they pay off congress and doesn't get done. They could make those SUVs get twice the mileage they do with tech that exist RIGHT now. IT would cost $600-$800 to implement but this wouldn't be profit so they don't do it!


Also, there is RIGHT NOW a Mercedes 300z(maybe Z, I forgot and I don't have the link in on this PC, that cost -/+ $1000 the same as the US 300 version available in Canada that gets 60 MPG. Guess what - Mercedes is not allowed to sell it in the US and It is ILLEGAL to import it into the US! I wonder WHO got that little gem passed!

So while the doing the rant about how liberal consider corps evil. Here is a perfect example where the free market in fact doesn't work and corps are "evil" because they ARE actively taking away options (want to call them rights) of individuals to make choices purely to gain more profit for themselves and to PREVENT competition and they use their
-free market, personal choice, no govt in our lives republican shills in congress, the senate and the white house to do it.
 
Magyar said:
And govt could do something about oil prices as well or at least it's effects. GPM standards are being held down because the big 2 don't want to invest in it so they pay off congress and doesn't get done. They could make those SUVs get twice the mileage they do with tech that exist RIGHT now. IT would cost $600-$800 to implement but this wouldn't be profit so they don't do it!
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Uhm, any evidence? And Toyota and Honda and Nissan are all just sitting on their hands while GM and Ford bribe the government? Why aren't they making SUV's that would get twice the mileage, and put GM and Ford completely out of business?

You think maybe the possibility exists that CAFE requirements just don't work?

Also, there is RIGHT NOW a Mercedes 300z(maybe Z, I forgot and I don't have the link in on this PC,
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I'm not surprised; I tried googling it and came up with zilch. Mercedes made a famous model 300 gull-wing car in the 1950s, but I don't think that's what you're talking about. Nissan makes a 300 ZX. If that's what you're talking about, please give a link to a site that shows the Canadian version gets 60 mpg.

that cost -/+ $1000 the same as the US 300 version available in Canada that gets 60 MPG. Guess what - Mercedes is not allowed to sell it in the US and It is ILLEGAL to import it into the US! I wonder WHO got that little gem passed!
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Cite?

So while the doing the rant about how liberal consider corps evil. Here is a perfect example where the free market in fact doesn't work and corps are "evil" because they ARE actively taking away options (want to call them rights) of individuals to make choices purely to gain more profit for themselves and to PREVENT competition and they use their
-free market, personal choice, no govt in our lives republican shills in congress, the senate and the white house to do it.
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You forgot to use the
RANT! rant function.

And you also forgot to provide any evidence whatsoever to back up a single claim you made.
 
Hey, take heart. I accidently farted in the elevator up to work. It wasn't pretty. When the doors opened, the cute little blond from HR was waiting to go down. I just said my usual how-do and walked briskly away.

It happens to us all.
 
Magyar said:
I They could make those SUVs get twice the mileage they do with tech that exist RIGHT now. IT would cost $600-$800 to implement but this wouldn't be profit so they don't do it
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!

I would like to see how you believe they would do this. I have a few ideas how I could if not double, at least substantially up the MPG without losing much power for around that, but it would have to be at the assembly level, not the aftermarket

The truth is these things are big, heavy, hunks of absolute crap, and modifying the existing designs into anything sensible would take some doing

Also, there is RIGHT NOW a Mercedes 300z(maybe Z, I forgot and I don't have the link in on this PC, that cost -/+ $1000 the same as the US 300 version available in Canada that gets 60 MPG.
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I highly doubt this. Mercedes reason d' etre is to make REALLY heavy hunks of doggy doo and convince suckers who have no self esteem whatsoever that buying this POS car will up their status in life. 60 mpg from a car that easily weighs as much as any THREE 1965-1973 "gas guzzling" american musclecars would be a feat of engineering
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Grammatron said:
Seems like poor planing on your part.
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Blaming the victim. Bush has made no annoucements that people should be planning, (which is what you have to do with such long term aspects of your life as work), to factor in higher fuel costs in their lives. That is, Bush should have been passing laws to ensure greater energy efficiency in buildings, penalising high fuel consumption cars, etc, years ago. And the Dems for that matter, but they would be too timid to do such things while the Republicans would attack them for doing so. Public transport should be improved. There are many practical things that can be done besides starting wars and making vague statements about hydrogen.
 
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