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Rumsfeld and the Generals

Mark said:
And when you are blindly loyal, you can pretend nothing is wrong, ever.

It's interesting. The conservatives on this board are making the argument that serving officers must not, ever, criticize Rumsfeld. Then they make the argument that serving officers must be happy with Rumsfeld because they are not complaining. It's a perfect circle.
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True enough Mark!

I am always amazed at how Bush and Rumsfeld often say with a straight face that they never hear complaints from the military.

Of course, they are dealing with Lieutenants who want to become Captains,
Captains who want to become Majors,
Majors who want to become Colonels, and
Colonels who want to become Generals, and
Generals who want to become Chief of Staff, and
All of these people need Rumsfeld and Bush to sign off on such promotions.

Ugh! It is no wonder that there is such an echo chamber.
 
Jocko said:
Sure, AUP, except Luke was talking about active generals, not retired ones. I'm surprised you didn't know the difference. ;)
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Powell was an ex, and he made it pretty clear that once his oath of loyalty was expired, ( he was a good army man), he was outta there. Luke's post that I replied to made no mention of serving or otherwise.

Meanwhile, the current war is costing more in current terms than the Vietnam war.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world...ers-under-siege/2006/04/20/1145344218091.html
 
a_unique_person said:
Powell was an ex, and he made it pretty clear that once his oath of loyalty was expired, ( he was a good army man), he was outta there. Luke's post that I replied to made no mention of serving or otherwise.
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WTF are you talking about? It's right up there, AUP:

"One current general". No name.
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Of those five words, the one you want to pay attention to is #2. Hope that helps.

Meanwhile, the current war is costing more in current terms than the Vietnam war.
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This just in: war is expensive. After the commercial break, we'll discuss how leading scientists have found that water is wet and AUP loves to switch topics the second he's caught out. :rolleyes:
 
For cryin out loud, it's friday night and i've had a few drinks. And Vietnam is still cheaper than Iraq. it's just an interesting fact I found out while looking up the generals reference. It's an unfortunate fact of life, serving military are not supposed to ever speak out against the chain of command. It's part of the military code of ethics. Either way, these are people who would have toed the line when they were serving, just like Powell did.
 
a_unique_person said:
For cryin out loud, it's friday night and i've had a few drinks. And Vietnam is still cheaper than Iraq. it's just an interesting fact I found out while looking up the generals reference. It's an unfortunate fact of life, serving military are not supposed to ever speak out against the chain of command. It's part of the military code of ethics. Either way, these are people who would have toed the line when they were serving, just like Powell did.
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If you want to complain about how unfair life is, go to church and talk to the management. If you want to discuss who's on record saying what on this particular topic, then by all means do so. But don't conflate the two, it's pathetic to watch.
 
Jocko said:
WTF are you talking about? It's right up there, AUP:



Of those five words, the one you want to pay attention to is #2. Hope that helps.



This just in: war is expensive. After the commercial break, we'll discuss how leading scientists have found that water is wet and AUP loves to switch topics the second he's caught out. :rolleyes:
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Why did you post this? Do you think it affects how anyone lives their life? ;)
 
Rob Lister said:
ditto, vice versa.

And when you are blindly disloyal, you can pretend nothing is right, ever.
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Disloyal? In what way? Oh, that's right..support Bush in all things or be a bad American. Sorry; I forgot.

(btw, for the bazillionth time...I supported Bush's invasion of Afghanistan.)
 
Mark said:
Why did you post this? Do you think it affects how anyone lives their life? ;)
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My point, Mark, is that I (like you) are simply a nameless voice of dissent. The kind of thing that most people don't let dictate their actions, beliefs or priorities. The kind of thing that doesn't generally bring down a cabinet member.
 
Jocko said:
If you want to complain about how unfair life is, go to church and talk to the management. If you want to discuss who's on record saying what on this particular topic, then by all means do so. But don't conflate the two, it's pathetic to watch.
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I'm not complaining. It's a simple observation. Serving generals cannot complain, it's how the military works. The fact that 'ex' generals comment at all is significant, given how inherently loyal they are even after they leave the military, (we are talking about generals now). Take it as you please.
 
a_unique_person said:
I'm not complaining. It's a simple observation. Serving generals cannot complain, it's how the military works. The fact that 'ex' generals comment at all is significant, given how inherently loyal they are even after they leave the military, (we are talking about generals now). Take it as you please.
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Yeah, well, thanks for the observation. Be sure to check back when you're through shattering all those negative Australian stereotypes.
 
Jocko said:
My point, Mark, is that I (like you) are simply a nameless voice of dissent. The kind of thing that most people don't let dictate their actions, beliefs or priorities. The kind of thing that doesn't generally bring down a cabinet member.
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The evidence of the Nixon Administration to the contrary...
 
Crossbow said:
As far as I know, only one Active Duty General, Shinseki, publicly complained about the war (before it even started) and he was fired as soon as they could get him out of the door.
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It's worth noting that he was giving his opinion on requirements to Congress, which has as much right to know it as the White House does. It is, after all, Congress that makes the decisions on war and they need honest advice to do that.

It wasn't crticism of the way the Iraq War has been fought. It was more an attempt to avoid the current shambles.
 
Charles Krauthammer on the Rumsfeld criticism

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/20/AR2006042001379.html

davefoc wrote:
4. The US is running the largest deficits in history. Deficits that are contributing to a huge balance of trade deficit, deficits that are weakening American power throughout the world and deficits that threaten the stability of the US economy. The current US military budget is now approximately equal to the rest of the world military expenditures combined. In the face of this Rumsfeld has not found one major military program that can be cancelled. Rumsfeld needs to be fired just for that.
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Krauthammer wrote:
His canceling several heavy weapons systems, such as the monstrous Crusader artillery program, was the necessary overriding of a hidebound bureaucracy by an innovating civilian on a mission.
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The Crusader was cancelled back in 2002. It appears at least some of davefoc's criticism of Rumsfeld on this issue was not justified.
 
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