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Tom Delay, American Taliban?

Oh. I see. You've divined their diabolic secret plot, and are now trying to alert a sleeping nation to the impending doom of religious mania about to sweep the nation and turn us all into Pat Robertson's slaves.

But Delay WAS elected - where's his record of acting like the Taliban? I guess political analysis is more fun if you're allowed to attribute hidden agendas even to politicians who have already served office. Like all those Stalinists running as progressive democrats. Or the reform party candidates who really want to build landing strips for gay Martians in Des Moines.

But whatever. Go ahead and paint Delay with the worst possible label you can think of - after all, who needs any perspective or sense of proportion once you've established opposition to him and his policies?


Sorry, you're the only one who is proposing conspiracy theory here.

I'm simply pointing out the facts about things like stealth candidates for school boards, etc. Go read your LOCAL newspaper for that, if you like.

If you think the facts point to a conspiracy, you're free to make the case. I simply think it's a dishonest, unethical tactic being adopted by people who want to push science out of the classroom.

ETA: I missed your last straw man. If you think this is the worst thing I can think about Tom Delay, you have a really rotten imagination. Why, pretty soon he'll be hiring thugs to go disrupt his opponents' press conferences. I wonder if they'll wear brown shirts. Oh, wait. Godwined again! :p
 
"Taliban" is becoming the new "fascist." "Fascist" long ago lost any meaning the word ever had, and it now is simply a word the left uses to tar anyone they don't like.

The left has gotten bored with "fascist", so now they tar the right with "Taliban." Google "Taliban wing" and you get almost six million hits, usually followed by "of the Republican party."

If you're going to compare your Republican political opponents to Islamist murderers, then you have no right to complain about Carl Rove.
 
"Taliban" is becoming the new "fascist." "Fascist" long ago lost any meaning the word ever had, and it now is simply a word the left uses to tar anyone they don't like.

The left has gotten bored with "fascist", so now they tar the right with "Taliban." Google "Taliban wing" and you get almost six million hits, usually followed by "of the Republican party."

If you're going to compare your Republican political opponents to Islamist murderers, then you have no right to complain about Carl Rove.

Ok, first, I'm a moderate, so you can't blame "the left".

Second, you don't like how it looks to me, change your party so it doesn't look like the Junior Mint version of the Taliban.

Third, putting words in "the left"'s mouth. Gosh, I wonder who did that before?
 
Overt religiosity from politicians makes me uncomfortable, and I'm opposed to a lot of the political goals of religious conservatives. But Delay as the "American Taliban"? We need a second version of Godwin's law. Really, if you can't criticize Delay without trivializing the true horror and barbarity of the Taliban by equating the two, you're just being lazy.

And the apologists begin.
 
Do you honestly think that Delay is planning on banning Muslim prayer, that he wants to tear down every mosque from Seattle to Miami?

If he had the power to do so, and the power to silence/placate/eliminate any opposition to it, Yes. The man is a loon and hates America on a fundamental level.
 
Think of Fred Phelps here, yes?

I've said this before and I'll say it again. Most of the fundies are exactly like Fred Phelps, the only difference is that Phelps has the balls to be honest about his views.
 
I've said this before and I'll say it again. Most of the fundies are exactly like Fred Phelps, the only difference is that Phelps has the balls to be honest about his views.

Either that, or everyone else has the necessary brains to be dishonest. ;)


On the other hand... why be dishonest? I mean, Hitler wrote this book, you see, where he explained what he was going to do if he was elected. And they STILL voted for him. And afterwards, EVERYONE, in Germany as well as elsewhere, claimed they had no idea what Hitler was up to.
 
Sorry, you're the only one who is proposing conspiracy theory here.

I'm simply pointing out the facts about things like stealth candidates for school boards, etc. Go read your LOCAL newspaper for that, if you like.

Let me try to explain it for you as simply as I can, because evidently you couldn't pick up on my point before. Those "stealth" candidates weren't stealth once they got in office. They enacted their plans, they tried to push creationism, and we know that because of what they ACTUALLY did. Now Delay got elected to office. But the complaints being aired in the original post have nothing to do with what he ACTUALLY did while in office, but instead are based on vague fears about what someone thinks he might want to do in the future but for some unstated reason never tried to do while he WAS in office. Can you honestly not understand the distinction there? How clueless are you?

ETA: I missed your last straw man. If you think this is the worst thing I can think about Tom Delay, you have a really rotten imagination. Why, pretty soon he'll be hiring thugs to go disrupt his opponents' press conferences. I wonder if they'll wear brown shirts. Oh, wait. Godwined again! :p

No, jj. Again you completely miss the point, like clockwork. If Delay were like the Taliban, he wouldn't just send thugs to break up his opponents' press conferences, he'd send suicide bombers as journalists to kill said opponents at their press conferences. THAT is what Delay would be willing to do if he was really like the Taliban, because that's what they actually did. It is not my failure of imagination here, but your failure to understand what the comparison actually means, and why I'm criticising that comparison.
 
If he had the power to do so, and the power to silence/placate/eliminate any opposition to it, Yes.

So do you have evidence to this effect? Or is this really only your fear?

Run, Tony, run! The fundies are coming! The fundies are coming! Flee before they baptise you!
 
My, my, look who's now making excuses for demonizing one's political opponents. He who was so upset about the "off-year election spin cycle..."

Ok, first, I'm a moderate, so you can't blame "the left".
A moderate who seems to direct his fire only towards the right...

Second, you don't like how it looks to me, change your party so it doesn't look like the Junior Mint version of the Taliban.
Sorry, your hallucinations are your own business; I have no control over how things look to you.

Now, if you have no problem with referring to Republicans as "Junior Mint Talibans," then, as a moderate, you should certainly have no problem referring to the Dems as "Junior Mint Terrorists", and shouldn't mind when people refer to "the terrorist wing of the Democratic party..."
 
One thing everybody is missing is that a lot of Republicans push the Christian Hard-Right agenda without really believing in it, solely to gain power. While I doubt they give two cents about the Christian woo, the part they do believe in is the lack of questioning those in charge which Christianity supports (one big God controls us all without rhyme or reason for his actions, anybody?). If anything, the Repubs are just your bog-standard powermongers who are piggybacking their lust for power on a religious group and their delusions. If you want to be completely fair, the Dems also do that to the middle and lower classes as well.
 
"Taliban" is becoming the new "fascist." "Fascist" long ago lost any meaning the word ever had, and it now is simply a word the left uses to tar anyone they don't like.

The left has gotten bored with "fascist", so now they tar the right with "Taliban." Google "Taliban wing" and you get almost six million hits, usually followed by "of the Republican party."

If you're going to compare your Republican political opponents to Islamist murderers, then you have no right to complain about Carl Rove.


Your point is a good one and a fair one. Though, I note, it is not only “liberal” and “leftists” who leap to pejoratives like “Taliban” or “Islamo-facists” to describe those whose policies they oppose (indeed, supporters of the Administration have never shied away from using terms like AlQeda lovers, or other terms to describe their opponents -- but, it is a sort of political chicken and the egg thing, I am sure).

Clearly, as a description of DeLay and his “politics,” Taliban is unfair. Taliban describes a foreign, religious/political configuration that has nothing to do with the American political scene. No, Tom DeLay is not an “American Taliban.” In the future, though I am sure I will not fully succeed, I will endeavor to avoid such rash, polarizing statements.

No, from now on I will use the only word that truly describes Tom DeLay as he is and what he stands for – Republican. Tom DeLay embodies, in every sense of the word, the modern, Republican Party – what it wants, how it operates, how it manages the branches of government it controls, the kind of people it attracts and what a modern Republican believes. He wouldn’t have become the Majority Leader were not that the case.

So, as I said, I will seek to banish “Taliban” and “Fascist” from my lexicon when it comes to main-stream American politics. Words are important. I will describe Mr. DeLay as what he is – a proud Republican and a moving force for over a decade of Republican politics, policy and aspirations.

In that way, it is clear that Mr. DeLay’s vision of himself, his role in government, his belief in the narrowing of the separation of church and state are all firmly rooted in the Republican Party that he has built and expanded over the last ten years, the party that he has helped lead to formal control of two branches of government.

So, the argument shouldn’t be over whether Mr. DeLay is a “Taliban,” but whether modern Republicanism and its embrace of millenial politics and fundumentalist Christian vissions is good for America. Again, given how far DeLay was able to ascend, given his power and influence, given the people he has promoted and supported (including the President), given his vision and aspirations (personal and political) it seems clear that in an American context, at least, Mr. DeLay sees himself and the Republican Party as the party of God (NOTE in an Islamic sense, but in a pure, Texas, all-American, rock-ribbed, Jerry Falwell-approving Republican kind of way).

Thanks for keeping me honest.
 
I've never been fond of the rhetorical term "American Taliban" -- so it stood out when Richard Dawkins used the phrase in his documentary (titled "Root of All Evil").
 
A moderate who seems to direct his fire only towards the right...
Yep. Haven't seen the left have much influence lately. Have you?
Sorry, your hallucinations are your own business; I have no control over how things look to you.
Still with the medical diagnoses? I guess you need to personalize things, eh? Or is it just that you sincerely can't imagine anyone disagreeing with you?
Now, if you have no problem with referring to Republicans as "Junior Mint Talibans," then, as a moderate, you should certainly have no problem referring to the Dems as "Junior Mint Terrorists", and shouldn't mind when people refer to "the terrorist wing of the Democratic party..."

Now, of course, that's another deceptive statement. I don't see Dems running around with IED's. I don't see them hijacking airplanes and crashing them into buildings.

I do see Repugnicans trying to ban abortion, mandate religion in government, and govern from a religious point of view, and what seems like such a short-sighted point of view one almost has to conclude that their beliefs are coming from the "final conflict" paradigm.

So, your deceptive statement stands completely refuted by those two simple paragraphs. Oh, and if you DO see a Democrat trying to fly a plane into a building, let me know, I'll trash that person too.
 
But the complaints being aired in the original post have nothing to do with what he ACTUALLY did while in office, but instead are based on vague fears about what someone thinks he might want to do in the future but for some unstated reason never tried to do while he WAS in office. Can you honestly not understand the distinction there? How clueless are you?


So, we are not to take the person's words and actions as suggestive of their future behavior? What you suggest is purely and simply that we must forgive any action that Delay has taken in the past, including his sending supporters to break up a press conference for a competing candidate (ala brown-shirts) very recently, and give him a clean bill of health going forward?

That's absurd, and you knew it when you said it. You would have everyone excuse all of his past behaviors, even though he is not in the least apologetic, and is clearly continuing in the same fashion as he's always continued.

You're ridiculous.

And, of course, you need to stop confuting the Taliban with Al-Quaida in your second paragraph, but of course, your doing so would completely put the lie to your confused apologia for Delay's brownshirts.
 
So do you have evidence to this effect? Or is this really only your fear?

Evidence for what? That Tom Delay would impose his religion should he gain the type of power I describe? Why don't you pony up evidence for your position. Where is your evidence that he would respect the human, civil and indivdual rights of Americans should he acquire the power I describe?

Run, Tony, run! The fundies are coming! The fundies are coming! Flee before they baptise you!

I understand your need to bury your head in the sand. It's hard coming to terms with reality.
 
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Evidence for what? That Tom Delay would impose his religion should he gain the type of power I describe? Why don't you pony up evidence for your position. Where is your evidence that he would respect the human, civil and indivdual rights of Americans should he the power I describe?
Let's see.

He uses force when he can get away with it.

He appears to have cheated with campaign funds.

He ruthlessly uses underhanded tactics to further his agenda.

Heck, Tony, why shouldn't we trust him completely?
I understand your need to bury your head in the sand. It's hard coming to terms with reality.

I'm tempted to suggest he thinks he'll get a piece of the pie when Delay takes over. That's ridiculous, of course, Delay would never give even a piece of mouldy pie to anyone and he probably knows that, so he's not really thinking that.
 
Evidence for what? That Tom Delay would impose his religion should he gain the type of power I describe? Why don't you pony up evidence for your position. Where is your evidence that he would respect the human, civil and indivdual rights of Americans should he acquire the power I describe?

Wow - you REALLY don't understand what I'm saying. In fact, you seem to be trying as hard as you can to NOT understand it.

I'm not trying to defend Delay. I'm pointing out that the comparison to the Taliban is extreme, and constitutes an extraordinary claim. The burden is on those who support the claim, because it is extraordinary. Headscratcher himself, the one who started the thread and first made the comparison I objected to, has already conceded the point that the comparison is not warranted and that he can make his criticisms without resorting to it. Why you seem determined to cling to the comparison is, I admit, quite beyond me.

I understand your need to bury your head in the sand. It's hard coming to terms with reality.

What reality is that, exactly? A purely hypothetical reality? Even by your own standards, you're talking about what you think Delay would do IF had power there is no reason to believe he can ever get. Whatever that is, it's not reality.
 
I'm not trying to defend Delay.

Yes you are. You just want us to pretend that you're not.

I'm pointing out that the comparison to the Taliban is extreme, and constitutes an extraordinary claim.

That is your personal subjective opinion. The comparison is neither extreme nor extraordinary.

Headscratcher himself, the one who started the thread and first made the comparison I objected to, has already conceded the point that the comparison is not warranted and that he can make his criticisms without resorting to it.

His post obviously went miles over your head.

Why you seem determined to cling to the comparison is, I admit, quite beyond me.

Apparently so.
 

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