Building own system, need a plan...

[Z]

Hi Guys!

Well, I'm finally to the point where I want to build a custom computer from the ground up. However, I don't have the ready cash to build it all at once; so what I need is a good plan of action.

The Facts:

What I want is a good system capable of gaming to a reasonable level. I'm not too worried about components like hard drives and DVD/RWs, since pretty much anything on the market will meet my needs just fine. Nor sound cards; a simple SoundBlaster model will be fine too.

The catch here is I get $50 a month to spend as I see fit. Assuming an occasional boost from the wife or holiday present, I think I can build a reasonable system in a little over a year. But I need a battle plan - a schedule of components to buy over time. What order should I be looking at which pieces? Should I start by focusing on the mother board? The graphics card? The case?

I fear if I design the system now and buy to match the design, by the time it's nearly done half my components will be obsolete and/or unavailable. So can anyone help me out here, suggest a plan/schedule?

Also, any suggestions as to what components would be best re: case, power supply, mother board, etc? I'm leaning toward AMD as I've had nothing but good experiences with AMD, and I'll be running Windows (yes, yes, I know) on the thing.

Help appreciated, thanks.

 

[kevin]

The motherboard kind of decides all the other things. So you'll at least need to have an idea of motherboard type before purchasing the other things.

Cases are sized to the motherboard, motherboards specify the processor types (and speeds to a certain degree) and the memory type.

Decide what kind of computer you want -- big tower case, small tiny fanless, etc... Intel or AMD processor, etc.... Is this for gaming or some other use (this is mainly for the video card. If gaming isn't a huge deal then an integrated video may be sufficient for you.)

From that you can begin looking at motherboards.

However, should you buy the motherboard first? If you're sure you won't change your mind about the case type (large or small) you could probably buy that first. Mainly because motherboards will change over the year and if you wait 'til near the end of when you want the computer finished either a) a better motherboard for the same price, or b) the same motherboard for cheaper, will be available.

Same goes for processors, and to a lesser extent memory.

I would probably go: case, memory, motherboard, processor. If hard drive is needed (i.e. not moving ones from current computer) I would buy them before the memory, maybe before the case even (and use them in current computer).

 

[kevin]

I like AMD. Both my servers are AMD.

I like ASUS motherboards. One server is ASUS the other is an NVidia NFORCE. The NForce works well, but I don't like NVidia's Linux drivers so I avoid them now.

And I like Antec cases, although I haven't seen any really innovative designs from them lately. I have one of their micro-ATX cases (the Aria) and it's nice and small.

Don't cheese out on the power supply. I've had too many of them fail on me.

 

[Underemployed]

You've probably chosen a bad time to do this, as both Intel and AMD are about to release new CPUs. The Intel ones should not require a new motherboard but the AMD ones will, as well as different types of RAM (DDR2 as opposed to DDR).

Regarding the case, unless you're a serious overclocker, violently opposed to fan noise or a sucker for fancy windows and neon lights, any old midi tower will do.


For the PSU, anything from the big brands like Enermax, Antec of around 400W will be fine (unless you are going for overclocking or a killer gaming rig).


Motherboard - depending on CPU, I'd go for the best you can afford, as this is one component you should not skimp on. ASUS are generally acknowledged as the leaders, but any of the other big brands (MSI, Epox, Gigabyte to name a few) should be fine too. Just pick the one with the feature-set you like best, as performance differences are undetectable outside of synthetic benchmarks.

Graphics card - for most games the NVidia 6600GT or ATi X800GTO will float your boat without breaking the bank. On a tighter budget try the 6600 or 6800GS (there are loads of variations on the numbers here, I'd go by price: anything in $100-$150 is decent mid-range, anything below is crappy; anything above is only necessary if you want gaming in high-res).

Regarding the CPUs, AMD is about to release the new AM2 socket, which of course will not fit any current motherboards. It will also need DDR2 RAM. Plus AMD processors have just had a small price hike. Not that I'm knocking them - until the new Intel CPUs hit the market, they are the best and the cheapest. Just bear in mind the entire range will be updated later this year.

Go dual-core as well, just in case...expensive but you'll kick yourself when the multi-threaded applications start to come out...maybe...

 

[Cecil]

I fear if I design the system now and buy to match the design, by the time it's nearly done half my components will be obsolete and/or unavailable. So can anyone help me out here, suggest a plan/schedule?

That's the big problem with your plan as I see it.

Why not save the $50 each month, until you have enough for a system?

 

[Underemployed]

Excellent plan of approach from Kevin, I would only add:

$50 a month will take a while to add up to the $500+ a good graphics card will come to. If you want to wait this long, I'd advise getting a board with onboard graphics but a 16x PCI-E slot to take a super gfx card in the future. Otherwise, compromise and get a superior mobo with a mid-range card.

I think if I were you I'd get a PSP and wait for the savings to amount to a couple thousand, at which point just buy a complete state-of-the-art system.

Can you wait 40 months, though? You might want to re-examine the gaming issue, as even 'reasonable' gaming performance these days demands high-end PCs.

 

[Z]

That's the big problem with your plan as I see it.

Why not save the $50 each month, until you have enough for a system?

I knew someone would bring up this idea...

I've toyed with that idea myself, but I'm a notorious spender. If money exists, I feel a need to spend it.

Which is why I have an allowance.

Still... given what Underemployed said about the new AMD processors coming out, that might not be a bad idea at all.

I'm definitely pro-AMD, and I like the suggestion about the dual-core. Don't know if it's something I'll need or not, but chances are, it'll come up sooner or later. And ASUS I think is just perfect - provided I can find the right motherboard when the time comes.

Also like the suggestions re: graphics cards. I feel good about what I have in my eMachine now - an FX5500 - but only because that was as heavy a card as my weak power supply can handle. My new system WILL have as large a power supply as I can manage to get. (And, of course, the means to cool it properly... )

Is AGP pretty much here for the time being, or are we looking at another slot change shortly? (Heard rumours) I got stung once during the PCI/AGP changeover, because a new computer we bought (that my wife uses) did NOT have AGP slots in it.

One other quick question: how many USB2 ports are too many? My current system boasts no less than seven USB slots (not sure if they're all USB2 or not), and runs fine even with all of them used (which I've done only rarely). On the other hand, my last system would crash if all four USB ports were used. My keyboard also has two but they're unpowered USB ports...

Thanks for the suggestions so far... still listening.

 

[Rob Lister]

$600 (50*12) can buy a decent system (software included). I'm not sure what it could buy bought peicemeal.

more?

less?

 

[kevin]

AGP will be around, but it's not the high-end video card slot of choice anymore. That goes to PCI-X now.

 

[Mongrel]

I'd suggest AMD for your processor, I wouldn't bother too much trying to keep up with the new standards if you're building on a budget though

For a Motherboard I personally prefer the Gigabyte range. I've had a variety of them in my many systems nearly 12 years and have yet to have a problem. If possible get dual PCI-e x16 board as you then have an upgrade path for a couple of years in the form of SLi or Crossfire

I'd normally suggest ATI for graphics but if you're still playing COH\V then stick with NVidia. Check somewhere like Tom's Hardware for the latest graphics benchmarks

Start with 1Gb of RAM you can always get more later. Go with one of the lesser (but still good) brands like Crucial or Kingston.

As Underemployed mentioned unless you're overclocking (and that's pretty hard to do on a $50\pm budget) the case won't matter too much. I would advise that you get something with 2x120mm (one front and back) as they're both quieter and more efficient.

PSU - I've had no problems with another non Top Brand supplier, HiperPower. They regularly get good reviews, are consistent in the power supplied and you're not paying a premium to have 'Enermax' stamped on it.

Hard Drive I'd probably leave till last. you can probably 'get by' with your old one for a month or two and they probably tie with RAM for speed of price change per MB - putting it off for a couple of months will probably get you another 50-100MB.

I'd also suggest, when it's time to buy components, that you check out the clearance sections or the specials section. Newegg come highly recommended on the other boards I hang out in and they have both. The other option would be to go to a smaller custom builder and buy a computer on credit and make sure the payments aren't more than $50, sure you'll pay more but a) you'll get it all in one go b) It'll be compatability tested before it's shipped to you c) It'll be warrantied.

ETA - If your wife is the person who's good with money would she be amicable to stashing your $50 allowance till you have enough for your new PC?

 

[Z]

I'd suggest AMD for your processor, I wouldn't bother too much trying to keep up with the new standards if you're building on a budget though

For a Motherboard I personally prefer the Gigabyte range. I've had a variety of them in my many systems nearly 12 years and have yet to have a problem. If possible get dual PCI-e x16 board as you then have an upgrade path for a couple of years in the form of SLi or Crossfire

I'd normally suggest ATI for graphics but if you're still playing COH\V then stick with NVidia. Check somewhere like Tom's Hardware for the latest graphics benchmarks

Start with 1Gb of RAM you can always get more later. Go with one of the lesser (but still good) brands like Crucial or Kingston.

As Underemployed mentioned unless you're overclocking (and that's pretty hard to do on a $50\pm budget) the case won't matter too much. I would advise that you get something with 2x120mm (one front and back) as they're both quieter and more efficient.

PSU - I've had no problems with another non Top Brand supplier, HiperPower. They regularly get good reviews, are consistent in the power supplied and you're not paying a premium to have 'Enermax' stamped on it.

Hard Drive I'd probably leave till last. you can probably 'get by' with your old one for a month or two and they probably tie with RAM for speed of price change per MB - putting it off for a couple of months will probably get you another 50-100MB.

I'd also suggest, when it's time to buy components, that you check out the clearance sections or the specials section. Newegg come highly recommended on the other boards I hang out in and they have both. The other option would be to go to a smaller custom builder and buy a computer on credit and make sure the payments aren't more than $50, sure you'll pay more but a) you'll get it all in one go b) It'll be compatability tested before it's shipped to you c) It'll be warrantied.

ETA - If your wife is the person who's good with money would she be amicable to stashing your $50 allowance till you have enough for your new PC?

You know, I was just at Newegg last night, drooling over the eye-candy cases over there. Man, you can get a really nifty looking box for under $100! And not all of them are just eye candy, either - five internal drive slots? That sounds pretty sweet to me...

Anyway, these are all really good suggestions. The wife is suggesting I look into getting a savings account (she has one that yields 4.4% monthly compounded on any balance) and stashing my money that way. There's no way I can get anything on credit (amazing how I spent so much money in Missouri, having never lived there! Identity theft bites), but maybe she'll take care of that for me (Thank the Gods we don't live in a community property state!).

Yeah, my main gaming interest right now is CoH/V. I don't intend to do more than one online game at a time. But I do pick up other games, sometimes, and would like them to play well - I'm still looking for a good space shooter-type game.

You know... this is kind of fun!

BTW - we saw a case last night that says it can hold a 12" x 10.5" ATX motherboard or smaller - is that too small?

 

[Mongrel]

BTW - we saw a case last night that says it can hold a 12" x 10.5" ATX motherboard or smaller - is that too small?

That sounds about right for a full size ATX mobo, I'm feeling lazy and can't be bothered to pull my system apart again

That said I've used the full size towers for ages, mainly because I don't have to worry too much about space to put it but also because it's a lot easier to work inside it and you shouldn't have to worry about chucking more bits inside of it

And not all of them are just eye candy, either - five internal drive slots? That sounds pretty sweet to me...

That's an average case then, mine for example has 8 slots and there are cases out there that can take more (you're normally looking at drive cages hung from every part of the system). The important point to remember is does the setup of the drive slots impede the airflow? Nothing will screw up a new computer quicker than poor ventilation although Newegg does seem to provide plenty of photos so it should be fairly easy to judge

 

[Stainless_Steel_Rat]

It's too bad about the credit. I'd definatly suggest a Computer loan if your bank or Credit union has them. I usually go $2000 for 5 years at around %6. I've done this twice in the last 10 years and both times managed to pay it off in just around 1 year... but the monthly payments averaged out to $50/mo.

I'm a big advocate of buying as big as you can, once every three years, rather than buying lesser parts all the time for that 3 years.

I've been pricing out a new PC myself, for high end gaming of course . $2000 will buy you a SWEET system, (I already have a good monitor so that helps me)

An AMD 64 X2 processor, a Nvidia SLI motherboard, 2GB ram, 2 SATA drives, Good case/psu, 2x Nvidia 7800GT video cards (For SLI!!!).

You could get away with 1 7800gt and spend the $300+ from the second one on a nice 19" LCD monitor.

Spending the $50 a month at a time is REALLY going to make putting a decent system together hard to do. You'll have to save up at least a month or two for each item.. Plus it will take a LONG time to get a complete working system.

Good luck!!

SSR

 

[Z]

We're looking at the possibility of the wife getting a credit line via ABS Computers or another location.... maybe even newegg. But the interest rates! Yikes!!

Still... it's one way to go...

Thanks for all the great advice, though.

 

[Zep]

Have you considered a "rolling upgrade" path?

Start with the design of your Ultimate ZaayrDragon Computer (UZC), and then work backwards substituting your lesser or current components one at a time while still allowing the machine to work. When you get back to where you are now, you have your upgrade path mapped out.

Then you start obtaining the components going foward as your budget allows, until you end up with your UZC! Of course, as new tech appears on the way, don't be afraid to make different substitutions. But at least you aren't just stabbing forward blindly, and you are also using your existing components to maximum value.

 

[Z]

That would work great! ...if this were strictly my own computer. Unfortunately (in spite of the time I spend on it) this computer belongs to our borderline autistic five-year-old, paid for with SSI funds. It has to remain optimized for HIS use, not mine... and I'm not entirely sure I can 'upgrade' his system into my UZC without somehow breaking rules.

 

[Zep]

What are the rules? Realistically speaking, each next version along the way to the UZC is going to be an improvement on the last, even if it's just in some small way, or as a preparation for the next step. Note also that the prices of desired components tend to drop over time - you may be able to get that wizzo video card or whatever for less in 6 months time.

However...!!! There could be another way to approach this entirely.

Look seriously at computer recyclers, second-hand PC dealers, auctions, etc.

The current specs of new computers on sale today are WAY beyond what most people realistically need to do real work and game, but they still get traded-in each year for the next latest-and-greatest. Executives particularly do this, for tax reasons, I understand (along with this year's Ferrari). Also, folded companies usually have their computer gear sold off in bulk to offset outstandings, and these tend to be recent models. The major PC vendors upgrade their own assets with new stock regularly - the old units go at bargain prices, although usually to staff first (have you a friendly contact in Dell or HP?). Even clearance and ex-demo stock can go for a song. And then there's auctions... I'm sure that there are many posters here who can point you to such sources local to you.

So there are sure to be readily available pre-configured as-new PCs at "last year's" specification that would admirably suit your requirements, and often at remarkably low prices - only a few hundred dollars sometimes.

What this means is you can get the majority of the UZC very cost-effectively in one swell foop, leaving only one or two minor upgrades to get all the way there if necessary. Perhaps more time-effective too?

You'll have to explain SSI to me!

 

[jimlintott]

I like AMD. Both my servers are AMD.

I like ASUS motherboards. One server is ASUS the other is an NVidia NFORCE. The NForce works well, but I don't like NVidia's Linux drivers so I avoid them now.

And I like Antec cases, although I haven't seen any really innovative designs from them lately. I have one of their micro-ATX cases (the Aria) and it's nice and small.

Don't cheese out on the power supply. I've had too many of them fail on me.

Like Kevin I am a big fan of Asus and AMD with my last three machines being built around that. Even Asus video cards.

Last November I put together a new box. Asus SLI mobo, AMD Athlon3800+ cpu, Nvidia GT7800 video. In an Antec Sonata case. It worked out real well. It wasn't cheap with taxes and shipping it was $1800 CDN for the box alone. It did come assembed and bench tested.

The goal was a very good gaming rig. That is why I went single core to spend the extra on video. I think you should get close to the best video card on the market at the time. Over the years I have always held back on video and that is the first place I needed to upgrade. Now the easy ugrade path is a second Gt7800 and a second gig of ram. The mobo will also take a dual core chip.

The mobo has onboard gigabit ethernet and onboard sound. I haven't added another sound card because this one works great even feeding a coax digital out to my home theatre amp.

My advice is if you want a decent gaming rig don't skimp on the video card and if you build a good gaming machine then it will have plenty of power to do anything else. Gaming requires more raw power than anything else the average home user wil do.

 

[Soapy Sam]

The Facts:
What I want is a good system capable of gaming to a reasonable level. I'm not too worried about components like hard drives and DVD/RWs, since pretty much anything on the market will meet my needs just fine. Nor sound cards; a simple SoundBlaster model will be fine too.

I'm perplexed. You are looking for a bulk standard spec system. There are lots available at low prices, which are guaranteed to work.

Why go to the difficulty of building one which may not work as desired?

 

[Z]

Because I am also looking for a system I can modify as I see fit, that will have the capacity for further upgrades, etc.

I fell into the 'standard bulk spec' trap previously - that's why I have a 350W power supply, two internal bays, and a lot of crap I neither need nor want on the system.

Of course, I'm more educated now...