Online Education

[WagnerianDisciple]

With online education becoming more and more prevalent is it a viable way to learn? The Ivy League at long last is embracing.


"However, despite the healthy dose of skepticism from traditionalist scholars, there are plenty of signs that online learning is slowly becoming integrated into the educational elite, specifically through executive and professional education offerings. "You'll always have people who are excited by [online learning] and people who are cautious," explains Ann Armstrong, executive director of Center for Educational Outreach and Innovation at Teachers College, a school within Columbia University. "The biggest concern surrounds being able to deliver the quality we are known for traditionally in the classroom over the Web." Teachers College started off by offering a few online courses, and now offers three online certificates that are New York-state approved. Columbia's Teacher's College is also in the process of creating its first fully online master's degree."

"Only time will tell what the future relationship between online learning and the Ivies will entail, but according to Len Evenchik, director of distance learning at Harvard Extension School, continued growth is inevitable. "I see online learning growing steadily at Ivy League institutions over the next decade."

Any experience or opinions?

Go to channel4000.com/classesusa for a look at ths article.

WD

 

[Forty-Two]

My husband used to work for an online university and is currently working toward his degree at said univeristy. So, for the rest of this post, I turn it over to Mr. 42:

Hey. =)

First, I'm going to point out how people can avoid online school scams, otherwise known as "diploma mills." After that, I'll talk about institutional effectiveness.

The whole trick to online learning is checking up on the school's accreditation. First off, any place that offers any kind of degree in "just days!" or some such nonsense is a scam, plain and simple. They are also usually accompanied by promises of delivering the degree based entirely on "life experience." Avoid such promises of degrees at all costs.

Do note, however, that legitimate schools can offer SOME credit for life experience, so if a school says they offer credit for it, don't dismiss them out-of-hand. Ask how much credit. If it's 30 credit hours or less, you're probably safe.

That being said, you want to find schools that offer a National or Regional accreditation (and here I'm speaking entirely in terms of U.S. schools--your country may differ). Schools that are Nationally (trade/vocational schools) or Regionally (standard colleges and universities) accredited are the only schools eligible to receive Federal student aid money (Stafford loans, PLUS loans, Pell grants, etc.), so there's another clue for you. If a school won't work with FAFSA (Free Application for Federal Student Aid), it's very likely to be a scam. If an online school WILL work with FAFSA, you can rest assured their accreditation is recognized and intact.

Note: I did NOT make an error re: National and Regional accreditation. It's counterintuitive, but schools like UCLA and Princeton are Regionally accreditated while places like ITT Tech are Nationally accredited. Don't know why, that's just how it goes.

Now, regarding institutional effectiveness, that too relates to accreditation. A school does not receive accreditation indefinitely; it has to be renewed every few years. During the renewal period, the school has to show that it has continued to offer quality programs, has reasonable graduation rates and career assistance rates, acts with integrity and ethics, has sufficient financial resources and stability to remain in operation, and so on.

So, in a nutshell, if an online school or program is offered by a Nationally or Regionally accredited, you can be sure that the program has been reviewed by an independent agency for quality. This even applies to for-profit schools like University of Phoenix or DeVry.

Final point then: if the program has a National or Regional accreditation, it just comes down to whether the student is comfortable taking the online classes and whether they feel like their learning style works well in an online environment. Some people need the discipline of a physical classroom, others don't.

I hope this helps. =)

 

[slickcat]

I'll chime in on this. I recently graduated from University of Phoenix with a degree in Criminal Justice Administration. I have taken classes in both traditional and online settings, and I have found that I prefer the online environment because it allows me to attend school when it is convenient for me. In comparing the two, I would say that the online program was more difficult due to the compression of classes (5 weeks versus 12 or more in a traditional setting) and the amount of writing involved.

 

[Banbury]

Since I have studied Computer Based Training (CBT) I can actually comment on the usefulness of it:

It depends .

You didn't expect that, did you?

No really, it's rather useful for stuffing your brain with facts and practicing repetetive tasks. Especially adults can benefit from it, because they don't have to attend 'school' (which lots of adults find embarassing) and they are free to schedule their learning times on their own (see poster above).
But it cannot and should not replace traditional teaching in areas where you have to learn stuff from an expert. Watching the expert at work is still the best way to learn doing it yourself.
With children it's more difficult, because many children are overwhelmed with the problems of self-organizing their studies. A teacher still is needed to supervize the whole learning experience, so you would use computers only for things you can't teach with other methods or where the computer representation adds something you can't get otherwise.

I don't think that computers can replace teachers, but they can help if used correctly. But I'm afraid that it will be used to save expenses in education without regard of the consequences.

Greetings

Banbury

 

[Forty-Two]

I don't think that computers can replace teachers, but they can help if used correctly. But I'm afraid that it will be used to save expenses in education without regard of the consequences.

This is Forty-Two's husband again:

If there were no regard to the consequences, the school's accrediting body would have something to say about that. To be sure, schools--especially for-profit schools--have a financial motivation to look toward online teaching models. However, if the lessons and outcomes do not meet brick-and-mortar standards, the accreditor will take action on the school.

Note, too, that for-profit schools such as University of Phoenix get extra scrutiny from accreditors and regulatory agencies SPECIFICALLY to ensure that the schools are not cranking out worthless diplomas. Accreditors and regulatory agencies have a legal and ethical responsibility to make sure that the schools they monitor are not swindling their students, and they take that responsibility very seriously.

Also, please be careful about speaking in absolutes; you said that "Watching the expert at work is still the best way to learn doing it yourself." This may be the case for you, but it is definitely not the case for everybody.

Personally, I prefer to learn by self-study and making the connections on my own. Watching somebody do something doesn't always make it stick for me. For example: I didn't learn history best by listening to a history professor in a classroom and taking notes. I learned history by studying texts, questioning the "why things happen," then looking to other texts to confirm or contradict my theories.

 

[Skeptic]

Online education is certainly not necessarily a scam, and there are quite a few legit online universities, but the problem is that many diploma-mill scammers offer fake education online. So one needs to be careful before starting such a program and make sure it's legit.

 

[Skeptic]

Also, please be careful about speaking in absolutes; you said that "Watching the expert at work is still the best way to learn doing it yourself." This may be the case for you, but it is definitely not the case for everybody.

It also depends heavily on the subject. I'm sure nobody can learn medicine or painting online, but I see no reason why one cannot get a degree in, say, literature or mathematics online that would be just as good as a "regular" one--at least when we're talking about undergraduate (i.e., non-research) degree.

 

[Forty-Two]

Online education is certainly not necessarily a scam, and there are quite a few legit online universities, but the problem is that many diploma-mill scammers offer fake education online. So one needs to be careful before starting such a program and make sure it's legit.

Mr. 42 here again.

Regarding this, just notice my first post in the thread. That's the exact same point I made. =)

CHECK THE ACCREDITATION!

A legitimate school will be able to provide the name of its accrediting body. The accrediting body will have a website listing other schools it accredits. Compare.

Joe's Lifelong Learning Degree, accredited by Bob's Online Accrediting Council that accredits nothing else = squat

Colorado Technical University Online, accredited by the North Central Association that also accredits University of Iowa and Michigan State = legit

 

[wunky]

I think that there may have been some softening of the accreditation for online schools.
You may also want to consider how you learn best. Can you sit and stare at a screen and learn something. Or do you need to have someone there to help you get a firmer grasp of the concept.
Not everyone works well in a remote environment.
You may also want to consider for future career plans if one will serve you better than the other. Some employers are more accepting of brick and morter schools, and their online programs than they are of for profit organizations. Just a thought

 

[Banbury]

If there were no regard to the consequences, the school's accrediting body would have something to say about that. To be sure, schools--especially for-profit schools--have a financial motivation to look toward online teaching models. However, if the lessons and outcomes do not meet brick-and-mortar standards, the accreditor will take action on the school.

I should have mentioned, that I speak of German schools and universities only. AFAIK there are no accreditors here. And if there are any, they're not doing their job very well.

Also, please be careful about speaking in absolutes; you said that "Watching the expert at work is still the best way to learn doing it yourself." This may be the case for you, but it is definitely not the case for everybody.

Personally, I prefer to learn by self-study and making the connections on my own. Watching somebody do something doesn't always make it stick for me. For example: I didn't learn history best by listening to a history professor in a classroom and taking notes. I learned history by studying texts, questioning the "why things happen," then looking to other texts to confirm or contradict my theories.

When I studied this stuff it was the general consensus that "learning by example" has the best effects. That's what different studies suggested (and no I can't cite one right now ). You obviously think of "ex-cathedra teaching", which is the least effective. I for example learned research from watching other people doing research (and of course asking questions).

It also depends heavily on the subject. I'm sure nobody can learn medicine or painting online, but I see no reason why one cannot get a degree in, say, literature or mathematics online that would be just as good as a "regular" one--at least when we're talking about undergraduate (i.e., non-research) degree.

I didn't mean that it's impossible to learn on your own. But I believe it is less effective. I learned computer programming on my own (and I'm working in the field right now), but there was a definite limit to what I was able to teach myself. And when I first started working I had to relearn some stuff from my colleagues, because I had taught myself some bad habits.

 

[Suezoled]

I didn't mean that it's impossible to learn on your own. But I believe it is less effective. I learned computer programming on my own (and I'm working in the field right now), but there was a definite limit to what I was able to teach myself. And when I first started working I had to relearn some stuff from my colleagues, because I had taught myself some bad habits.

Depends I guess on your learning style.

 

[Aurelian]

Let the buyer beware, meaning I've caught Mr. 42's check-the-accreditation mantra, and agree. I have an in-law with an online Master's degree from Keller/DeVry that hasn't been able to do squat with it, and is currently unemployed for the fifth time in 4 years, with the debt that comes with the degree. He made great grades (a necessity in grad school) - I'd also ask about job placement statistics. I get the impression that he was book-smart, but not managerial/people savvy. Learning on the job can have a high penalty. Would more human interaction help? I think so. You may want to look at what a local brick-and-mortar university can do for you online in a graduate department.