I've seen some nasty paper cuts, too.
I've seen some nasty paper cuts, too.
AND some of the world's largest reserves of oil.
I guess they just don't want, er, to add to global warming.
Yeah, that's it.
Mycroft
High Priest of Ed
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Americans are just obsessed with Iran because they embarassed them once with the hostage thing. Iran is not the most dangerous islamic country in the world. They are pretty insular and not involved in the Al Qaeda thing at all (that's Sunni thing, they are Shias).
Pakistan is much more of a worry - they already have nuclear weapons, a leader who's position is precarious and lots of Jihadist fanatics waiting in the wings.
Perhaps a little bit of mutually assured destruction is what the middle east needs. When both sides have the capacity to anihilate the other then they have to take each other seriously and have a relationship that goes beyond the trading of insults. It seems to be working OK in the case of India and Pakistan. Maybe it could work out for Israel and Iran too?
Pakistan is much more of a worry - they already have nuclear weapons, a leader who's position is precarious and lots of Jihadist fanatics waiting in the wings.
Perhaps a little bit of mutually assured destruction is what the middle east needs. When both sides have the capacity to anihilate the other then they have to take each other seriously and have a relationship that goes beyond the trading of insults. It seems to be working OK in the case of India and Pakistan. Maybe it could work out for Israel and Iran too?
geni
Anti-homeopathy illuminati member
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12th? Wrong branch of islam.
Americans are just obsessed with Iran because they embarassed them once with the hostage thing. Iran is not the most dangerous islamic country in the world. They are pretty insular and not involved in the Al Qaeda thing at all (that's Sunni thing, they are Shias).
You have made a few good points, however I don't see how the hostage crisis from the 70s comes into this at all. The idea of Iran with nuclear weapons is plenty worrying enough even without it. In any case, the 1970s hostage crisis is hardly mentioned by American politicians so far as I can tell.
You have made a few good points, however I don't see how the hostage crisis from the 70s comes into this at all. The idea of Iran with nuclear weapons is plenty worrying enough even without it. In any case, the 1970s hostage crisis is hardly mentioned by American politicians so far as I can tell.
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
Certainly nothing like that.
From what I have heard, they are still years away from making a device, making diplomacy by far the preferred option at the moment. Sure, a shooting war is fun, but I am tired of Iraq now.
Well, the question wasn't directed at you, but since you chimed in*, what evidence would it take to convince you?
* ...with a non-answer; I wasn't asking zbu what evidence would not convince him...
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
I believe they do want nukes. I also read that they won't have that capability for at least a year or two. Time to try diplomacy and international pressure. Military means can always be left till other options have been exhausted.
Oh, okay, then. Now would you mind explaining to zbu how you came to that conclusion? He doesn't think they're even trying to go nuclear.
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
Reading and listening to various news sources, including the much maligned IAEA.
I just think it poisoned the relationship between US and Iran. Iranians still chant "Death to America" as if they were at war with them and the US has a very long memory for countries that have injured it's pride in some way or another (don't they still have an embargo on Cuba...)
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
It actually works both ways, the US has only just started diplomatic relations at any level recently. The Iranians don't like the US, but he US certainly haven't liked Iran either. For a while there, the moderates had a chance at leading Iran down a more moderate path, US pig headedness in regards to Iran meant that they were not given any reward to show for their attempts to do so.
Time to try diplomacy and international pressure. Military means can always be left till other options have been exhausted.
Well, not in your case. You will first oppose military intervention becuase they don't yet have nukes and it's too early, and then--when undeniable evidence is presented that due to this shilly-shallying the mullahs have nukes, sorry about that--you will oppose military intervention because they already have nukes and it's too late.
Well, not in your case. You will first oppose military intervention becuase they don't yet have nukes and it's too early, and then--when undeniable evidence is presented that due to this shilly-shallying the mullahs have nukes, sorry about that--you will oppose military intervention because they already have nukes and it's too late.
Correct, but I doubt that the "death to America" chants have much to do with the 1970s crisis. Many countries that never took American hostages shout "death to America" as well. Again I'm not denying what you say is true, I just wonder how relevant it really is to the current crisis.
Huh? I thought it was pretty well established that Ahmadinejad is a twelver.
peptoabysmal
Illuminator
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Mutually assured destruction only works with those who care about their own destruction more than the destruction of their enemies.
Yeah, let's hurry up and sell these folks some nukes before Russia out-bids us.
We shouldn't make the mistake of thinking that bad, despotic leaders must be irrational. If nothing else they want to physically survive and want the physical survival of the country that they rule over. Even Saddam was shewd enough to make sure that he never did anything that might have lead to him being nuked.
And besides, Iran is not N. Korea (another country that worries me more). Iran's not really a democracy, but what the people think does affect the government's conduct and I'm pretty sure they don't all want to die just yet.
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
You're making things up again. You have been warned about that before.
Mycroft
High Priest of Ed
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It seems like a reasonable extrapolation.
By your own words you believe the Iranians are only one or two years away from building a bomb. Given the stakes, that's a very narrow margin of error for intel that could easily have underestimated them.