Loose Change

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kookbreaker said:
Somehow they've managed to intimidate and blackmail every structural engineer in the world. I rather doubt it.
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With a quick Google (or other) search, please show me how many engineers back up the official story 100%. If this is the case, then why are NIST having trouble finding engineers to help them explain WTC7. Because they still haven't.
 
Graham S1 said:
What we are talking about here, is a small minority, who were able to carry out their plans, as most of the people who were involved, would have simply been following orders, ie military, secret service, agency staff etc. Others who tried to speak up later, would have been paid off, "accidented/suicided", or BLACKMAILED into keeping quite.
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and your evidence for this is?
 
Graham S1 said:
You can't say it was the WHOLE government because that is simply not true, and not necessary either. Beleive it or not, there are good people that genuinely want to help in government.
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And none of those people have spoken up in almost 5 years?
Graham S1 said:
What we are talking about here, is a small minority, who were able to carry out their plans, as most of the people who were involved, would have simply been following orders, ie military, secret service, agency staff etc. Others who tried to speak up later, would have been paid off, "accidented/suicided", or BLACKMAILED into keeping quite.
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You don't understand government work very well. You're talking here about local and federal law enforcement agents, the intelligence community, The State Department, The CIA, the NSA, the Army, the Navy, The Airforce, the local fire department all cooperating to pull this off, with paperwork and gossip flying everywhere. Someone who wasn't supposed to know would find out eventually and leak it to the press.
Graham S1 said:
Why did I capitalise blackmail? Simply because there are many people in government, (far more than are actually evil), are fallible, to sexual urges. Those urges can be used and abused.
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So every good person in government has a sexual urge they're ashamed of? I'm not ashamed of any of my sexual encounters. Perhaps you are projecting some of your own insecurities?
Graham S1 said:
Anyone thinking this is far fetched, should look up "The Franklin Cover Up", by Senator John W Decamp. This book has nothing to do with 911, but stars many of the same players.
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You're pointing us to another conspiracy theory to back this one up?
 
Shrinker said:
As a neutral observer of this debate, I just wanted to pipe up and say you're being a little harsh an Alek. He's logical and open minded, as evidenced by this post on the Loose Screws forum...
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I've corrected his quote
Personally, it isn't likely that anyone, whether they're considered to be an "expert", or whether they have a PhD behind their name is going to convince me that the WTC 7 building wasn't a controlled demolition. My own intelligence and intuition are paranormal on this matter.
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Graham S1 said:
With a quick Google (or other) search, please show me how many engineers back up the official story 100%.
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I'd say the burden of proof is on you. To date, no Structural engineer has made any strong disagreement with the events as described by NIST. There are countries in this world that are hostile to us, and yet the structural engineers from that part of the world haven't exactly been breaking down the doors.

By comparison, Structural Engineers in China have made reports describing the model for failure of the WTC 1 & 2. I don't have the link handy right now, but can provide it later.

If this is the case, then why are NIST having trouble finding engineers to help them explain WTC7. Because they still haven't.
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You greatly (and probably deliberately) misunderstand the purpose of NIST. They are not there to grunt 'fire burn, building fall' . They are determined to find the exact points and causes of failures. This is not to appease CT'ers, it is for future sttructural study and implementation. This process takes time, and they are not going to rush due to the catcalls of CT'ers.

In the meantime, no structural engineer has said anything about explosives or any other cause of failrue for WTC7 other than fire and structural damage from debris.
 
delphi_ote said:
So every good person in government has a sexual urge they're ashamed of? I'm not ashamed of any of my sexual encounters. Perhaps you are projecting some of your own insecurities?
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Well yeah, but that's because you already buy off on the NWO's story. Start raising any serious questions and they'll send over the really, really kinky girl.

Hey, wait. I got an idea...
 
Graham S1 said:
You can't say it was the WHOLE government because that is simply not true, and not necessary either. Beleive it or not, there are good people that genuinely want to help in government.

What we are talking about here, is a small minority, who were able to carry out their plans, as most of the people who were involved, would have simply been following orders, ie military, secret service, agency staff etc. Others who tried to speak up later, would have been paid off, "accidented/suicided", or BLACKMAILED into keeping quite.
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OK, let's say it was a small group of people in government, contrary to what we've been told by Alek in post after dreary post. In order for the conspiracy to work, this small group would have to have, at the very least, total control over the 911 Commission. This commission was under a political and jouralistic microscope for months, and yet no one was able to tell that it was being manipulated?

You said most of the people involved would have just been following orders. Well, there you have it! We now KNOW who is responsible -- There is only one govt. entity charged with giving such orders, so it can't be anyone else but... the Executive branch of the government, led by GW Bush! Dang, he must be craftier than he appears to be!

What are you waiting for, man! Get down to Washington and make a citizen's arrest!
 
With a quick Google (or other) search, please show me how many engineers back up the official story 100%. If this is the case, then why are NIST having trouble finding engineers to help them explain WTC7. Because they still haven't.
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Why do they have to agree 100%. Do experts in every other field always agree 100%? What percentage variation in expert opinion = solid evidence of a coverup?


And why do they have to be accessible via a quick Google search? How many of these experts are really so bothered about the whole thing that they'll set up websites announcing their opinions? That kind of behaviour is more indicative of cranks than anything else.

Besides, it's only fair that you first list all of the information sources that you consider to be 'in on it', so others don't waste time looking for evidence you won't accept. Can you do that?

Edited to add quote
 
manny said:
Well yeah, but that's because you already buy off on the NWO's story. Start raising any serious questions and they'll send over the really, really kinky girl.

Hey, wait. I got an idea...
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Damn! Quick! Someone get me a copy of every pamphlet the John Birch Society and 9/11 Scholars for Truth have ever published!
 
Alek said:
...It's called 9/11 The Road to Tyranny, by Alex Jones. I'm not going off track and enumerating the evidence here.
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Ah poor Alex. I actually used to know him. Alex is a great human being, but he has gotten wackier and wackier with his "journalism". I still read some of his websites from time to time, but he has gotten so far out there, I don't think he will ever return. Sometimes I feel sorry for him. I suppose he is making a decent living doing this. Sometimes I wonder if he does not believe this garbage and is just making a buck, but maybe I'm giving him too much credit...

And yes, I've seen his 9/11 road to tyranny video. Actually I own several of his videos (but mostly his older ones).

LLH
 
aggle ... so bush never listens to his advisors? he just dreams things up and says "do it". do you think he's aware of much of anything that goes on under his nose in other Government Departments. How do we know Cheney and Rumsfeld haven't got their fingers crossed behind their backs when they talk to him?

Do you think your dad might have an influnce slightly more than yours if you are GW Bush himself.

Love the attacks and lack of any credibility on this forum. Shout, shout , shout, you're wrong cause your an ass.

Shrinker... hence why I said "(or other)" as in any kind of reference, be it in a library or an office filing cabinet somewhere. If there is a document, it still has to be scanned and put on "the web", the means by which we are communicating now. So you would still have to do a search to find it.
 
Graham S1 said:
Love the attacks and lack of any credibility on this forum. Shout, shout , shout, you're wrong cause your an ass.
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Would you like to bring some evidence of demolition to the table? This litle uncalled for tantrum is not going to be very convincing.
 
My evidence is the speed at which it fell. If there were no explosives/accelerators, it would have been a LOT slower.

Yours?
 
:trollface
Graham S1 said:
My evidence is the speed at which it fell. If there were no explosives/accelerators, it would have been a LOT slower.

Yours?
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:dl:

What you don't know about physics fills the entire physics section at the Library of Congress and several universities!
And Numerous elementary and Jr. high scools...
 
Graham S1 said:
My evidence is the speed at which it fell. If there were no explosives/accelerators, it would have been a LOT slower.
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That's not evidence, that's an opinion.

Please answer the following questions with verifiable supporting data.

1. How fast did the building fall?
2. What explosives/accelerators were used?
3. What other evidence exists that explosives/accelerators were used?
4. How fast should the building have fallen without the explosives/accelerators?
 
Graham S1 said:
Shrinker... hence why I said "(or other)" as in any kind of reference, be it in a library or an office filing cabinet somewhere. If there is a document, it still has to be scanned and put on "the web", the means by which we are communicating now. So you would still have to do a search to find it.
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Why would the structural engineers of the world be writing documents stating their agreement with somebody else's findings? People don't produce documents unless they feel they have to. Those who had to produce documents, did so becuase it was their job to do so, as part of the official investigation. But official documents don't interest you.

Why don't you produce documents that disagree. And produce them in volumes significant enough to counterbalance the thousands of structural engineers that haven't raised any concerns at all.

Why don't you identify real organisations (eg insurance companies, building contractors, architects etc) which employed structural engineers to investigate the collapses, but who's opinions you would actually respect. Then perhaps we can find out what their opinions are.
 
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