Ace_of_Sevens
Thinker
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2005
- Messages
- 225
Until a few months ago, I worked at a major fashion mail-order outlet doing customer service and taking orders via phone. I was fired and have had trouble finding a new job. Here is the background:
There were about 300 employees and the workforce was about 85% female. I am male.
I was keeping an online diary documenting my thoughts and activities, including my attraction to a co-worker. I never used anyone's name or the company's name, because I knew such things can lead to trouble. It was identifiably mine as there were several pictures of me.
Several months before I was fired, I had gotten in trouble for supposedly grabbing a different co-worker's ass. This was entirely accidental, and was more of an incidental brushing than a grab. She was standing behind a chair I reached for without looking. I explained this at the time.
I was moonlighting as a male stripper at a local club. I didn't bring this up at work, but some of my co-workers saw me and apparently weren't discreet about it. I had figured it was a fairly liberal company so this wouldn't be an issue. After all, one of the supervisors moonlighted as a drag queen and had a sizable picture of himself dresssed as Cher on his desk. It may be worth noting one of my female co-workers also moonlighted there, though I don't think this was common knowledge at work. Another co-worker was lead singer in band that was known for performing with topless go-go dancers, though the latter part was really only widely known to people familiar with the local music scene, which I don't think included any of the management.
I was fairly certain that my reputation created a presumption of indecent behavior. People bump into each other all the time in crowded cubicle environments and usually no one thinks anything of it. I didn't bring this up when I got in trouble as I thought it likely wouldn't do any good and I wasn't certain if management actually knew about my extracurricular activities.
As I mentioned, it was an 85% female workforce, so I was constantly subjected to talk from my co-workers about how all men were scum, liars, cheats, etc and help their friends get away with same, etc. This includes from that aforementioned woman I was attracted to. I wanted to tell them that this really had more to do with their taste in men than men in general, but I figured I would get in trouble again. I couldn't bring myself to stand by completely, so I did say that not all men are like that and gave some tips for how to lean on a guy's friends if you think they're covering for him.
At one point I got in an argument with said attractive co-worker after she brought up strip clubs and how they were immoral, strippers were untrustworthy and she wouldn't let her boyfriend go to one because he'd cheat on her. I took offense to this because my best friend worked at the club she was talking about and some of the things she was saying were kind of libelous. (Claimed to have witnessed on-stage sex, when this is a veery by-the-book place, etc.) Also, my sort-of girlfriend was a retured dancer. She said not to expect her to be faithful. I told her many dancers were very loyal to their boyfriends and her guy had a much lower chance of picking up women at a strip club than a regular bar. She said she considered allowing someone else ot see you naked or vice-versa a form of cheating. I said many people would disagree, but I didn't really want to discuss this at work as I was afraid I'd get myself in trouble, but she shouldn't be so judgmental of people she didn't know.
I never overtly hit on her, though I did pay her compliments when she seemed to be digging ("My glasses make me look ugly," ""I wish I were as smart as you," etc.) and I also complimented her fashion sense on a couple occasions. She had a rather effective geek chic/hippie hybrid going.
At one point, her boyfriend beat her rather badly after she confronted him about his cheating, including dragging her beside his car after he caught her arm when rolling up the window. I told her she could do a lot better than this guy (which I told her the previous time he beat her up as well). She was pressing charges and was afraid to face him in court and asked me a lot of questions about how it would go and whether she could be charged, etc. (I'm constantly mistaken for a lawyer.) I told her she wouldn't need to directly address him and considering the evidence, if he had a lick of sense, he'd plead out anyway. On her request, I looked up the statutes and said what he coudl be charged with, what he'd be facing in terms of time, etc. I also told her that her actions were prettyclear cut self defense and there wwas little chance she'd be charged and less she'd be convicted. The guy was a semi-pro ultimate fighter and had her pinned and was choking her to the point that there were clear handprints on her neck when she turned back up at work a day and a half later. She picked up whatever she could reach, which happened to be a rather heavy phone, I belive, and hit him upside the head, giving him a sizable cut. No one was going to hold that against her.
Anyway, her shift started half an hour after mine and she usually came and sat next to me (Granted, we out of habit usually sat at the same desks, but there were no assigned seats beyond that you should sit near your supervisor if possible.) She frequently started conversations with me, bith askign for work help and rather personal things, like her complaints with her boyfriend. One day I asked if she'd like to hang out outside work sometime. In my mind, I was not asking her on a date and I phrased to try to keep it from coming off that way. Despite me finding her tremendously attractive, she wasn't really my type and she wasn't in any shape for a relationship anyway. She seemed really sad all the time, had complained of being lonely and had had to break with a bunch of friends because of their connections with her now ex-boyfriend, so I thought she could use some company. The next day, she was sitting across the center. I kept sitting where I had been, figuring she had probably taken this the wrong way, which I felt bad about because she was having a rough enough time as it was.
A couple weeks later, I was called into the office and fired. Apparently she had complained I had been staring at her. I suppose that's fair. I had been paying a lot of attention to her, though that was largely because she seemed so broken up. I will concede my attraction to her was also an important factor. She also said that when I was assigned to support, I hung out near her desk. Also true, though it was one of about four places I hung out when no one needed help. I had never been told that I was bothering her or to stop or anything like that. She also said I was following her around the center, which I definitely wasn't. Apparently, unbeknowst to me, she'd been reading my online journal the whole time. She said I'd told her I was writing about her, which I definitely didn't. I said I wasn't using any names including that of the employer, revealing any personal info, business secrets, etc. This was just a representation of my thoughts and feelings and had nothing to do with work. I also hadn't ever touched her, hit on her, etc. She was an emotional minefield for completely understandable reasons and I'd accidentally stepped in the wrong place, but the bottom line was this was more about her state of mind than anythign I did, which I didn't think was fair to punish me for. However, I had only been called in to be told why I was being fired. It was a zero-tolerance, no-room-for-discussion policy.
I have since found it quite impossible to be hired anywhere. Everyone wants to know why I left my previous employer. Sexual harrassment is the kiss of death. When I try to not call it that,, I come across as evasive and when I try to explain thinga, I come across as defensive. Is there any good way to approach this, am I SOL, or is this a sign of a genuinely unemployable personality?
P.S. I just looked this up in the criminal records database and the guy only got two days for assault with intent to cause serious bodily harm. Also, I never got a chance to apologize to her and word is that she got back together with the guy again. This upsets me more than losing my job.
There were about 300 employees and the workforce was about 85% female. I am male.
I was keeping an online diary documenting my thoughts and activities, including my attraction to a co-worker. I never used anyone's name or the company's name, because I knew such things can lead to trouble. It was identifiably mine as there were several pictures of me.
Several months before I was fired, I had gotten in trouble for supposedly grabbing a different co-worker's ass. This was entirely accidental, and was more of an incidental brushing than a grab. She was standing behind a chair I reached for without looking. I explained this at the time.
I was moonlighting as a male stripper at a local club. I didn't bring this up at work, but some of my co-workers saw me and apparently weren't discreet about it. I had figured it was a fairly liberal company so this wouldn't be an issue. After all, one of the supervisors moonlighted as a drag queen and had a sizable picture of himself dresssed as Cher on his desk. It may be worth noting one of my female co-workers also moonlighted there, though I don't think this was common knowledge at work. Another co-worker was lead singer in band that was known for performing with topless go-go dancers, though the latter part was really only widely known to people familiar with the local music scene, which I don't think included any of the management.
I was fairly certain that my reputation created a presumption of indecent behavior. People bump into each other all the time in crowded cubicle environments and usually no one thinks anything of it. I didn't bring this up when I got in trouble as I thought it likely wouldn't do any good and I wasn't certain if management actually knew about my extracurricular activities.
As I mentioned, it was an 85% female workforce, so I was constantly subjected to talk from my co-workers about how all men were scum, liars, cheats, etc and help their friends get away with same, etc. This includes from that aforementioned woman I was attracted to. I wanted to tell them that this really had more to do with their taste in men than men in general, but I figured I would get in trouble again. I couldn't bring myself to stand by completely, so I did say that not all men are like that and gave some tips for how to lean on a guy's friends if you think they're covering for him.
At one point I got in an argument with said attractive co-worker after she brought up strip clubs and how they were immoral, strippers were untrustworthy and she wouldn't let her boyfriend go to one because he'd cheat on her. I took offense to this because my best friend worked at the club she was talking about and some of the things she was saying were kind of libelous. (Claimed to have witnessed on-stage sex, when this is a veery by-the-book place, etc.) Also, my sort-of girlfriend was a retured dancer. She said not to expect her to be faithful. I told her many dancers were very loyal to their boyfriends and her guy had a much lower chance of picking up women at a strip club than a regular bar. She said she considered allowing someone else ot see you naked or vice-versa a form of cheating. I said many people would disagree, but I didn't really want to discuss this at work as I was afraid I'd get myself in trouble, but she shouldn't be so judgmental of people she didn't know.
I never overtly hit on her, though I did pay her compliments when she seemed to be digging ("My glasses make me look ugly," ""I wish I were as smart as you," etc.) and I also complimented her fashion sense on a couple occasions. She had a rather effective geek chic/hippie hybrid going.
At one point, her boyfriend beat her rather badly after she confronted him about his cheating, including dragging her beside his car after he caught her arm when rolling up the window. I told her she could do a lot better than this guy (which I told her the previous time he beat her up as well). She was pressing charges and was afraid to face him in court and asked me a lot of questions about how it would go and whether she could be charged, etc. (I'm constantly mistaken for a lawyer.) I told her she wouldn't need to directly address him and considering the evidence, if he had a lick of sense, he'd plead out anyway. On her request, I looked up the statutes and said what he coudl be charged with, what he'd be facing in terms of time, etc. I also told her that her actions were prettyclear cut self defense and there wwas little chance she'd be charged and less she'd be convicted. The guy was a semi-pro ultimate fighter and had her pinned and was choking her to the point that there were clear handprints on her neck when she turned back up at work a day and a half later. She picked up whatever she could reach, which happened to be a rather heavy phone, I belive, and hit him upside the head, giving him a sizable cut. No one was going to hold that against her.
Anyway, her shift started half an hour after mine and she usually came and sat next to me (Granted, we out of habit usually sat at the same desks, but there were no assigned seats beyond that you should sit near your supervisor if possible.) She frequently started conversations with me, bith askign for work help and rather personal things, like her complaints with her boyfriend. One day I asked if she'd like to hang out outside work sometime. In my mind, I was not asking her on a date and I phrased to try to keep it from coming off that way. Despite me finding her tremendously attractive, she wasn't really my type and she wasn't in any shape for a relationship anyway. She seemed really sad all the time, had complained of being lonely and had had to break with a bunch of friends because of their connections with her now ex-boyfriend, so I thought she could use some company. The next day, she was sitting across the center. I kept sitting where I had been, figuring she had probably taken this the wrong way, which I felt bad about because she was having a rough enough time as it was.
A couple weeks later, I was called into the office and fired. Apparently she had complained I had been staring at her. I suppose that's fair. I had been paying a lot of attention to her, though that was largely because she seemed so broken up. I will concede my attraction to her was also an important factor. She also said that when I was assigned to support, I hung out near her desk. Also true, though it was one of about four places I hung out when no one needed help. I had never been told that I was bothering her or to stop or anything like that. She also said I was following her around the center, which I definitely wasn't. Apparently, unbeknowst to me, she'd been reading my online journal the whole time. She said I'd told her I was writing about her, which I definitely didn't. I said I wasn't using any names including that of the employer, revealing any personal info, business secrets, etc. This was just a representation of my thoughts and feelings and had nothing to do with work. I also hadn't ever touched her, hit on her, etc. She was an emotional minefield for completely understandable reasons and I'd accidentally stepped in the wrong place, but the bottom line was this was more about her state of mind than anythign I did, which I didn't think was fair to punish me for. However, I had only been called in to be told why I was being fired. It was a zero-tolerance, no-room-for-discussion policy.
I have since found it quite impossible to be hired anywhere. Everyone wants to know why I left my previous employer. Sexual harrassment is the kiss of death. When I try to not call it that,, I come across as evasive and when I try to explain thinga, I come across as defensive. Is there any good way to approach this, am I SOL, or is this a sign of a genuinely unemployable personality?
P.S. I just looked this up in the criminal records database and the guy only got two days for assault with intent to cause serious bodily harm. Also, I never got a chance to apologize to her and word is that she got back together with the guy again. This upsets me more than losing my job.
