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Split Thread Islamic takeover

Abooga said:
I don´t support the far right, I´m more of a centrist, I despise all extremists. But for quite some time now I´ve been noticing this blind spot from mainstream parties and thought it would empower the far right. And it´s happening as predicted, look at their rise in Germany and France. It´s a tragedy that this was not addressed earlier. Deniers are the useful idiots with part of the blame for the rise of the far right.
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By that token you probably think Hitler was a raging anarcho-syndicalist. You are gone so far to the right lad that you can't even see the merest glimmer of reality.
 
Mojo said:
I think we can safely say that someone with Spanish citizenship is Spanish, but Spain has various cultural traditions.
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If it's not in relation to cultural traditions and values but only citizenship, being Spanish is no measure of assimilation. So it has to be the culture/values part to mean anything to this discussion. But if Helen has no metric for that, she still can't say how Spanish a person is even if she accepts that definition in principle. Which I still don't know if she does.
 
Nessie said:
After our trip to Bradford (a modest city centre but litter free, which makes it better than Glasgow) for a curry, can anyone recommend a no go zone for us to visit? I hear there are such places in the UK.
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If you're willing to go slightly further afield. The village of Oola in Limerick is a no go area because it's home to a tribe of redheads. The chipper there is supposed to be good though.
 
Nessie said:
I live somewhere that must be 95% indigenous white, with Muslims a very rare sight. On our annual Yorkshire holiday we visited Bradford, in part to see what it is like to be in a minority. There were times when we were the only white people we could see. But there was not the Muslim domination we had been led to believe. There were as many black Africans as middle easterns. Using how women dressed as an indicator, we saw one whose face was fully covered. The rest were a mix of head covers or nothing, so I would say the majority are quite Westernised. We saw white and African women with head covers suggesting they were also Muslims. The restaurant we went to was Pakistani and did not serve alcohol, which is odd when having a curry. Scots associate alcohol with curry. We never felt any form of intimidation or uncomfortable; it was just different from what we were used to.
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Being a Muslim from near Bradford, I can say there is a huge diversity within the population that would define as Muslim. Bradford has an area called Little Germany because of all the Geman immigrants who settled there, I don't think there are any Lutheran churches in Bradford now and you hardly hear german spoken in the streets. Many of the Muslim population of Bradford are from a small rural area of Pakistan (Azad Jammu and Mirpur). Initially there were single men, who then brought wives from their community. Traditions were perpetuated, immigrant populations often carry on with traditions that have disappeared in the place of origin. Hassidic Jews dress as their ancestors did in 18C East Europe. Clothing in East Europe has evolved. Many of those traditions are not Islamic, though often traditions are justified by reference to Hadith. Marriage is arranged between families where a daughter will marry a son from one family who then will marry a daughter back. This keeps wealth within families who could otherwise not afford dowries. None of this is Islamic. My family come from a very different Pakistan, urban, professional, middle class where women have been expected to achieve a university education for generations. Whilst introductions might have been made, Arranged marriages don't seem to have been a thing in my family, none of my grand parents had arranged marriages. In contrast when I was at school it was known that 14 - 16 year old girls from the rural working class families would be sent back to the village in Pakistan then often return two or three years later married. The legal age of marriage in most of pakistan is 18 in a few areas 16 for women. a lot of work was done to change this practice. Some may remember an 'honour killing' occurring in relation to this? Honour killings are not Islamic, they are cultural. Honour killings occur in Christian communities in Europe. It should be remembered the Italian Supreme court only removed the honour defence for killing a family member in 2005, and until 1981 the honour defence was part of Italian law.

A lot of what is claimed to be Islamic is not. It is often unislamic but is part of tradition. Wearing a face covering (niqab) is not required in Islam, covering your cleavage is.
www.quran-islam.org

True Islam - Women Dress Code

True Islam is derived from the Quran and not from the traditions or cultures of Muslim people
www.quran-islam.org

The main problem with the illegal migrants are they are mostly young men (who tend to be badly behaved, see frat houses), poorly educated, escaping from wars. Often abused during during their travels. Kept idle because they are not allowed to work.
 
Trausti said:
Do the Islam apologists here fanaticize that when (not if) the Muslim population becomes dominate that it will faithfully adhere to all the Western liberal values they hold dear? Is there any example in history of a dominate Muslim population doing such a thing?
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Have you been to Turkey? Bosnia? Albania? Tunisia, Indonesia, Bangladesh?

The riots in Albania seem to be about increasing democracy.
www.bbc.co.uk

Protesters and police in Albania fight in seventh day of violent clashes

Almost 300 people have been injured, more than half of them police, as violent anti-government demonstrations show no sign of easing.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 
Planigale said:
Being a Muslim from near Bradford, I can say there is a huge diversity within the population that would define as Muslim. Bradford has an area called Little Germany because of all the Geman immigrants who settled there, I don't think there are any Lutheran churches in Bradford now and you hardly hear german spoken in the streets. Many of the Muslim population of Bradford are from a small rural area of Pakistan (Azad Jammu and Mirpur). Initially there were single men, who then brought wives from their community. Traditions were perpetuated, immigrant populations often carry on with traditions that have disappeared in the place of origin. Hassidic Jews dress as their ancestors did in 18C East Europe. Clothing in East Europe has evolved. Many of those traditions are not Islamic, though often traditions are justified by reference to Hadith. Marriage is arranged between families where a daughter will marry a son from one family who then will marry a daughter back. This keeps wealth within families who could otherwise not afford dowries. None of this is Islamic. My family come from a very different Pakistan, urban, professional, middle class where women have been expected to achieve a university education for generations. Whilst introductions might have been made, Arranged marriages don't seem to have been a thing in my family, none of my grand parents had arranged marriages. In contrast when I was at school it was known that 14 - 16 year old girls from the rural working class families would be sent back to the village in Pakistan then often return two or three years later married. The legal age of marriage in most of pakistan is 18 in a few areas 16 for women. a lot of work was done to change this practice. Some may remember an 'honour killing' occurring in relation to this? Honour killings are not Islamic, they are cultural. Honour killings occur in Christian communities in Europe. It should be remembered the Italian Supreme court only removed the honour defence for killing a family member in 2005, and until 1981 the honour defence was part of Italian law.

A lot of what is claimed to be Islamic is not. It is often unislamic but is part of tradition. Wearing a face covering (niqab) is not required in Islam, covering your cleavage is.
www.quran-islam.org

True Islam - Women Dress Code

True Islam is derived from the Quran and not from the traditions or cultures of Muslim people
www.quran-islam.org

The main problem with the illegal migrants are they are mostly young men (who tend to be badly behaved, see frat houses), poorly educated, escaping from wars. Often abused during during their travels. Kept idle because they are not allowed to work.
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We were disappointed by Little Germany. The streets were deserted, we could not find the highly rated cafe that was on google earth and the buildings looked a bit run down. We ended up in a cafe in the nearby shopping centre, where I confused staff by using words that us Scots recognise, such as dribble and wee!

What you describe about Westernised or not extreme Muslims is what we saw. I hoped that would be the case, but a diet of news about Islam and Muslims that suggests a take over, gives the impression we would see lots of women in full Burkas and men who would make it clear we should stay away. I am so glad that was wrong and it makes me all the more angry over right wing extremism.
 
LSSBB said:
Specify exactly what has gone wrong in Dearborn.
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Give it over, man. D'born is like 'Troit: people of certain types WANT to demonize it.

Odd, the way they overlook Hamtramck, the first Muslim-majority town in the US. Perhaps they shy from trying
to spell the name (which comes from a French colonel, Jean-François Hamtramck, and how I'd love to hear a
sample of Frenchmen try to pronounce it!), or possibly they think it's still Polish, which is almost as good as
White and therefore Godly American Soil.

Another oddity: These terrified defenders of our culture don't object to the Amish or the Mennonites, who dress
and talk funnier than any Muslims, nor to the Hutterites, who are actual practicing communists, and
doctrinally as daft as Wiccans.

Of course, when our resident Aryans catch sight of a crowd of Hassidic Jews, especially hassidim dressed
up for a wedding, they know what to feel, and mutter. And maybe pick up and throw, if the odds look good.
 
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@Ziggurat, this is was I answered;
Trausti said:
Of the 25 and under, it's 11%. I imagine that for Egypt, at one point the Muslim population was also 5% or less. Demographics is destiny.
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If the Muslim population grows, as Trausti implies it will, it means that the children of Muslims will be born and grow up in Spain, and many of them will be Spanish citizens. I am very aware that the far right are not satisfied by that, and insist on some kind of nebulous [country-of-their-choice]ishness, but in a population of 50 million people (Spain), or even 10 million (Sweden), there are already so many different ways of being [country]ish, so how else could you tell?

Blowing smoke? You say i do that, in a thread about islamic takeover in Europe? Those of you who actually believe in that takeover, have a worldview full of paranoia, and bereft of all nuance.
 
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