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Cont: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine part 9

Flo said:
defending their country.

There's a difference, and an important one.
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Sounds like hair-splitting to me. They're at war because they have to fight to defend their country. But English is my second language, and maybe 'fighting a war' specifically refers to fighting a war you started, and where you are the aggressor?
 
Flo said:
defending their country.

There's a difference, and an important one.
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Yes, there is a difference. "Defending their country" is a vague platitute, that could refer to anything from a marketing campaign to stronger border control to trade regulations, to actual military action to secure their national sovereignty.

"Fighting a war", on the other hand, tells you exactly what's going on and how
serious the situation is.

There's no shame in Ukraine fighting this war. There's nothing wrong with saying that's what Ukraine is doing. You don't need to sugar-coat it, or minimize it, or try to spin it as something other than war. We all know that Ukraine's cause is just. No need to try to make a taboo of saying the loud part out loud.
 
theprestige said:
Yes, there is a difference. "Defending their country" is a vague platitute, that could refer to anything from a marketing campaign to stronger border control to trade regulations, to actual military action to secure their national sovereignty.

"Fighting a war", on the other hand, tells you exactly what's going on and how
serious the situation is.

There's no shame in Ukraine fighting this war. There's nothing wrong with saying that's what Ukraine is doing. You don't need to sugar-coat it, or minimize it, or try to spin it as something other than war. We all know that Ukraine's cause is just. No need to try to make a taboo of saying the loud part out loud.
Click to expand...

Yes, Ukraine is fighting a war in defense of their country.

Russia is fighting a war of aggression to seize another country.

All sorted now.
 
icerat said:
Sadly, the backups are coming online and the trolls have begun to return
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Pity, but at least this made it very clear who's behind much of the bs and vitriol online. As if we didn't know thst already... While this Special Operation isn't even close to the success Putin wanted it to be, thanks to the bravery, intelligence and resilience of Ukraine, he has been far too successful in their attempts at destabilising the West. Not quite as successful as he wants to be, however. Not yet.
 
icerat said:
Sadly, the backups are coming online and the trolls have begun to return
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Its true, but the lack of trolls was quite notable, and more to the point there are apparently 12 such data centers and Ukraine hit 3 of them 9and probably a few smaller ones from other companies). They are very hard to replace & repair right now because of the cost of memory, etc.
 
Hoping Ukraine will keep hitting them, like the Wildberries warehouses. Surely blowing up a data centre must be less work than rebuilding one.

Helen said:
Pity, but at least this made it very clear who's behind much of the bs and vitriol online. As if we didn't know thst already... While this Special Operation isn't even close to the success Putin wanted it to be, thanks to the bravery, intelligence and resilience of Ukraine, he has been far too successful in their attempts at destabilising the West. Not quite as successful as he wants to be, however. Not yet.
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Yeah, it's a good reminder for the Western public. Maybe more newspaper comment threads should require people to verify they actually are who they say they are, using a secure service like BankID (don't know what the counterparts are around the world, but it's a very, very secure login system that's used for logging into your online bank, medical clinic, etc.). Same with social media, possibly.

And yes, this is an important reminder that supporting the Ukrainians benefits the West directly. It doesn't just help them defend their country, the ripple effects benefit us, too.
 
icerat said:
Sadly, the backups are coming online and the trolls have begun to return
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It's all a myth .. the bots mentioned in cloudflare reports are automated web crawlers, not people posting propaganda into web forums. It's obvious from the volume and the constant nature of the traffic before the hits. Also cloudflare never hinted at propaganda. People are just misreading the reports.
Human driven traffic is not tied to a data center.
 
Dr.Sid said:
It's all a myth .. the bots mentioned in cloudflare reports are automated web crawlers, not people posting propaganda into web forums. It's obvious from the volume and the constant nature of the traffic before the hits. Also cloudflare never hinted at propaganda. People are just misreading the reports.
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That's like claiming a graph showing global temperatures increasing means more extreme weather increasing is a myth.
Non sequitur. Same cause, different effects.

Yes, people have misinterpreted the cloudflare graph - and apparently faked at least one other - but the effect has been so overwhelmingly obvious no graph is needed. It really has been a MASSIVE difference. The Xitter has been transformed.

And sadly, just as obvious as they're returning.
Dr.Sid said:
Human driven traffic is not tied to a data center.
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Where do you think AI is? Where do you think payment systems for human trolls are? Where do you think communication systems for human trolls are? They're not dropping dossiers off behind the park bench, Doc.
 
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Dr.Sid said:
It's all a myth .. the bots mentioned in cloudflare reports are automated web crawlers, not people posting propaganda into web forums. It's obvious from the volume and the constant nature of the traffic before the hits. Also cloudflare never hinted at propaganda. People are just misreading the reports.
Human driven traffic is not tied to a data center.
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It's a bit of both, as far as I can tell.
www.euronews.com

Ukrainian strikes on data centres and Russian bot activity in freefall

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said social media had become less hostile following Kyiv's strikes on Russian technology giant Yandex's data centres, as web users report plummeting bot activity. #EuropeNews
www.euronews.com www.euronews.com

On the one hand:
According to an analysis of Cloudflare Radar data, automated traffic originating from Yandex's network fell by approximately 94% on Sunday compared with its average levels in the second half of September.

However, the figures also include legitimate automated traffic, such as search-engine crawlers, and do not establish whether Kremlin-linked social media bots were affected.
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But also:
Political repercussions across Europe and the US

In Germany, claims of a sharp decline in online activity surrounding the far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) circulated widely following the attacks, although no independently verified figures have emerged.

Czech MEP Tomáš Zdechovský questioned the apparent coincidence between the disruption and the reported decline in activity around the party.

"If confirmed, this is telling: Russian data centres get hit, and online activity around AfD suddenly plummets," he wrote on X.

Similar claims emerged in Britain, where online activity associated with Reform UK was also reported to have declined following the attacks.

In the United States, social media users reported fewer apparently automated pro-conservative responses on X, the platform owned by Elon Musk.
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I do note that a lot of this seems anecdotal, though. Eagerly waiting and hoping for real numbers.
 
icerat said:
That's like claiming a graph showing global temperatures increasing means more extreme weather increasing is a myth.
Non sequitur. Same cause, different effects.

Yes, people have misinterpreted the cloudflare graph - and apparently faked at least one other - but the effect has been so overwhelmingly obvious no graph is needed. It really has been a MASSIVE difference. The Xitter has been transformed.

And sadly, just as obvious as they're returning.

Where do you think AI is? Where do you think payment systems for human trolls are? Where do you think communication systems for human trolls are? They're not dropping dossiers off behind the park bench, Doc.
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All this talk is about cloudflare graph, and it's simply not that. If you have other sources, post them. "Less hate on X" might be just placebo. I can't really tell, I'm not going there, and I for sure don't graph the traffic there ..
 
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