Will Democrats ever concede on immigration?

[The Great Zaganza]

I don't know if I can demonstrate this to your satisfaction. It's ultimately a values thing.

Anthropology and genetics have shown group differences are real and remarkably persistent. If you look at the works of social scientists like Gordon Allport and Robert Putnam who study group conflict, it's far easier to engage in hasty generalizations than build bridges to other groups. And I think there's something to that---the sense of community and belonging, the willingness to share resources is mostly intuitive. And not all groups are as open as others and frankly there is no room in a liberal society for some people. If you can't agree with me on that part I don't think you've met a sufficiently diverse cohort of recent immigrants.

I think we have seen on Jan 6th what kind of people have no place in a liberal society.

Yeah I'd rather not let illegals in hospitality and healthcare.

spoken from lack of experience.
Interestingly, you haven't said anything about farming - you are okay with exploiting undocumented workers for that?

 

[Venom]

I think we have seen on Jan 6th what kind of people have no place in a liberal society.

Well you're gonna get more of that uncivilized slop if strict immigration enforcement is not upheld.

spoken from lack of experience.
Interestingly, you haven't said anything about farming - you are okay with exploiting undocumented workers for that?

No and I think holding American employers accountable for hiring foreign labor is among the most important measures.

 

[Resume]

No and I think holding American employers accountable for hiring foreign labor is among the most important measures.

Yeah, that's been going on for just about ever. When are the prosecutions beginning?

 

[Norman Alexander]

Well you're gonna get more of that uncivilized slop if strict immigration enforcement is not upheld.

Immigration enforcement is fine. They have that in North Korea too. It's the methods of enforcement that matter. We get the impression that some folks see "enforcement" as an excuse to do some ethnic cleansing and KZ operations.

No and I think holding American employers accountable for hiring foreign labor is among the most important measures.

Why is foreign labour such an anathema? And where are the legions of Americans lining up who should be given those jobs first?

 

[mumblethrax]

You don't really see arguments about immigration lowering native wages anymore, and certainly not from people who are immigrants themselves.

You don't see those arguments anymore because it's been definitively shown to be untrue.

Preserving national cohesion, which does not follow hyper-rational policy aims but is an important goal that almost every other country takes for granted.

"National cohesion" is just a dog whistle.

The US isn't a nation-state. The thing you want to preserve wasn't there to begin with.

 

[dirtywick]

we must preserve our national identity lest we forget the united states long history as a land of opportunity for immigrants

 

[Trausti]

Why is foreign labour such an anathema? And where are the legions of Americans lining up who should be given those jobs first?

I just find this view bewildering. Policy should be what is in the best interest of Americans, not what is in the best interest of a foreigner.

 

[Trausti]

we must preserve our national identity lest we forget the united states long history as a land of opportunity for immigrants

You mean the ones who settled and built the country when there were no welfare programs or other government handouts?

 

[dirtywick]

i was actually thinking more like the 1800s where the homestead act where handed out 160 acres for free lol

 

[Trausti]

i was actually thinking more like the 1800s where the homestead act where handed out 160 acres for free lol

You mean land that had no built homes, no local infrastructure, no government assistance for food or other necessities? That?

 

[dirtywick]

yeah, a time when everyone was given an opportunity regardless of who you are or where you were from. now you want to deny others the same opportunity and think you're entitled to it. that's why it's important to preserve our national identity, because people like you don't understand what people used to think was so great about america.

 

[HawksFan]

You mean the ones who settled and built the country when there were no welfare programs or other government handouts?

You mean the Swedes, Irish, Italians, Germans, Chinese, Africans, Mexicans, etc? Those settlers?

 

[mumblethrax]

And many of the African immigrants got free room and board!

 

[Manopolus]

The OP might have me on ignore or something. Hasn't noticed a word I said, anyway. However, let me just leave this here as proof that other inhabitents of the country felt the same way about my own immediate ancestors as some of their descendents think about the Mexicans. I present you: Know Nothing flyer from the 19th century:

 

[Trausti]

yeah, a time when everyone was given an opportunity regardless of who you are or where you were from. now you want to deny others the same opportunity and think you're entitled to it. that's why it's important to preserve our national identity, because people like you don't understand what people used to think was so great about america.

It's not the same opportunity. Democrats just sued the Federal government because it intends to deny visas/green cards to people who will likely be public charges. The difference between the pre-welfare immigrant and those of today is quite stark.

 

[Trausti]

You mean the Swedes, Irish, Italians, Germans, Chinese, Africans, Mexicans, etc? Those settlers?

Sure.

 

[Trausti]

The OP might have me on ignore or something. Hasn't noticed a word I said, anyway. However, let me just leave this here as proof that other inhabitents of the country felt the same way about my own immediate ancestors as some of their descendants think about the Mexicans. I present you: Know nothing flyer from the 19th century:

View attachment 75806

There were no public benefits at that time.

 

[Manopolus]

There were no public benefits at that time.

Did you read the flyer?

 

[Trausti]

Did you read the flyer?

Had to look it up. "to being taxed for the support of foreign paupers" Which is just as valid argument then as it is now. It makes no sense to bring in foreigners just so they can collect welfare at taxpayers' expense. The American worker shouldn't be the slave to the world.

 

[Manopolus]

Had to look it up. "to being taxed for the support of foreign paupers" Which is just as valid argument then as it is now. It makes no sense to bring in foreigners just so they can collect welfare at taxpayers' expense. The American worker shouldn't be the slave to the world.

Okay, so you admit to being supportive of the Know-Nothings message, which was a group entirely opposed to the migration of:

ANCESTORS OF SOME OF THE VERY FREAKING PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT MEXICANS NOW.

Sorry for the all caps. You folks seem to read it better that way (Trump). I just wanted to make sure you got the point before answering whether that's what you meant.