Will Democrats ever concede on immigration?

[dirtywick]

Then, in 2024, the Biden administration agreed to a bill that would provide more funding for CBP personnel and equipment, as well as increase the requirements for asylum claims. It was written by James Lankford, the Republican Senator from Oklahoma, and had majorities in both chambers. But, instead of bringin it to the House Floor for a vote, Speaker Mike Johnson deferred to Donald Trump. Trump didn't want to give Biden any sort of win.

in any case the ops question was answered here

 

[I Am The Scum]

How about the American Federation of Labor. It was not an explicit socialist organization, but used the same arguments to lobby against immigrant labor.

Philip Randolph and W.E.B. Dubois criticized mass immigration hurting economic prospects for blacks.

The United Farm Workers, led by Cesar Chavez, who beat up "wetbacks" for years because he believed American border officials didn't do enough to stop illegal crossings.

Two old school socialists, Bernie Sanders and Jeremy Corbyn, were critical of mass immigration hurting native labor until fairly recently.

I can list examples of Karl Marx making these same points. But the context is important by the mid-20th century. The U.S. was in competition with the Freedom^TM hating Soviet Union and I think a cultural turn occurred where immigration as a humanitarian virtue was emphasized over economic arguments. Indeed the United Farm Workers is practically pro-immigration now. On top of that you have the major demographic shift since the late 20th century. Open borders and mass amnesty is a mainstream position now.

If you traveled back in time 15 years and told conservatives that they'd be raising their right hand and swearing to cheat in elections for a war-mongering, self-dealing, philandering, openly-racist demagogue who can't even name a random Bible verse, they'd laugh you out of the room.

If you think that the political landscape from 100 years ago has any relevance to the situation we are in today, then you have completely lost the plot.

 

[Venom]

in any case the ops question was answered here

Except it wasn't.

Asylum officers would have considered whether migrants could safely relocate within their native country to avoid "fear of persecution", which is better, but hardly a high bar. It was never a high bar to begin with. And it looks like the Biden admin could have done all of these things without a new law saying so.

Trump basically stopped illegal immigration. As close as you can get, really.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

at what cost?
seriously, was it worth $110 billion plus dozens of deaths, multiple US citizens ones, plus legal residents and citizens spending weeks or months in jail or even being deported?
Americans being harassed daily by armed men in masks?

Venom, is that really the price you are happy for everyone, including you, to pay to get a tiny % of migrants out of the country faster?

this is an obvious "cure worse than the disease" situation, and you don't want to see it.

 

[Venom]

at what cost?
seriously, was it worth $110 billion plus dozens of deaths, multiple US citizens ones, plus legal residents and citizens spending weeks or months in jail or even being deported?
Americans being harassed daily by armed men in masks?

Venom, is that really the price you are happy for everyone, including you, to pay to get a tiny % of migrants out of the country faster?

A high cost indeed. But in 2026, I think many Americans are willing to pay.

Whose fault is that? Democrats and the Left broadly need to take responsibility too. They allowed social justice, limitless asylum, and "anti-imperialism" to dominate leftist discourse. Mass wealth redistribution policies could in theory draw a large number of MAGAs as well as leftists, but I've come to believe that in a more mixed society with a permissive immigration system there is not enough social trust for widespread support.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Apres moi, le deluge.

 

[Venom]

If you traveled back in time 15 years and told conservatives that they'd be raising their right hand and swearing to cheat in elections for a war-mongering, self-dealing, philandering, openly-racist demagogue who can't even name a random Bible verse, they'd laugh you out of the room.

I don't doubt that.

If you think that the political landscape from 100 years ago has any relevance to the situation we are in today, then you have completely lost the plot.

The Left completely dropped the ball within the past several decades. That's my point.

 

[dirtywick]

Except it wasn't.

Asylum officers would have considered whether migrants could safely relocate within their native country to avoid "fear of persecution", which is better, but hardly a high bar. It was never a high bar to begin with. And it looks like the Biden admin could have done all of these things without a new law saying so.

Trump basically stopped illegal immigration. As close as you can get, really.

the question was whether or not the dems would concede on immigration, and in 2024 biden conceded to the gop proposal at the time.

of course it was later rejected and they have done much more expensive and draconian measures.

which to me resembles moving the goalposts. and i’m unsure what answer you’re even looking for here

 

[Venom]

the question was whether or not the dems would concede on immigration, and in 2024 biden conceded to the gop proposal at the time.

of course it was later rejected and they have done much more expensive and draconian measures.

which to me resembles moving the goalposts. and i’m unsure what answer you’re even looking for here

It's probably the best example in recent memory.

But from a wider perspective, Democrats have been pushing for amnesty for illegals and defunding immigration enforcement for years, which to me undercuts the small concession to what should have been in place.

U.S. Citizenship Act of 2021

Chuck Schumer in 2022

Elizabeth Warren
A Fair and Welcoming Immigration System
Elizabeth Warren says 11M illegal migrants need ‘pathway to citizenship,’ suggests Kamala Harris will work to ‘get it done’

You can find Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ilhan Omar, Zohran Mamdani, etc saying similar things.

 

[Resume]

Didn't Reagan do an amnesty and a pathway to citizenship?

 

[dirtywick]

It's probably the best example in recent memory.

But from a wider perspective, Democrats have been pushing for amnesty for illegals and defunding immigration enforcement for years, which to me undercuts the small concession to what should have been in place.

U.S. Citizenship Act of 2021

Chuck Schumer in 2022

Elizabeth Warren
A Fair and Welcoming Immigration System
Elizabeth Warren says 11M illegal migrants need ‘pathway to citizenship,’ suggests Kamala Harris will work to ‘get it done’

You can find Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ilhan Omar, Zohran Mamdani, etc saying similar things.

what does a dem concession on immigration mean to you?

 

[Nova Land]

Venom, here's what I asked you in the comment I posted:

I think you are mis-representing what people on the left back in the 20th century were saying and feeling about immigration. Please identify some of the liberal, socialist, progressive, or other left-leaning individuals and groups who you think were anti-immigrant / anti-immigration, and quote some of the anti-immigrant / anti-immigration things they said, to help male it clearer what you're saying about them and whether it's an accurate representation.

The examples you provided in your comment replying to me of people and groups you identify as liberals and socialists who opposed immigration are:

the American Federation of Labor...
Philip Randolph and W.E.B. Dubois ...
The United Farm Workers ...
Bernie Sanders ...
Jeremy Corbyn ...
Karl Marx

But you failed to quote any of the anti-immigrant / anti-immigration things they said. Perhaps they didn't really express the kind of sentiments you're attributing to them? If they did, you need to provide examples.

It's not hard to look up examples of what Bernie Sanders has said about immigration, so let's do that. Here's a link to some of what Bernie Sanders said about immigration back in early 2016 (as preserved for us by Ballotpedia):

• Sanders said on May 12, 2016, that he continues to oppose “the painful and inhumane business of locking up and deporting families who have fled horrendous violence in Central America and other countries,” following reports that the Obama administration would be conducting large-scale immigration raids.

• At a press conference in Arizona on March 20, 2016, Sanders called the current debate over illegal immigration “a trumped up and exaggerated problem.” He continued, “We don’t need a wall and we don't need barbwire. We need to fix our broken criminal justice system. First and foremost, it goes without saying that we need comprehensive immigration reform, we need to take 11 million undocumented people out of the shadows, out of fear, and we need to provide them with legal protection, and we need to provide them with a path toward citizenship."

And here's a part I'd especially recommend you read and understand, where Bernie Sanders explains his opposition to a 2007 immigration reform bill:

• "In terms of 2007 immigration reform, yeah, I did vote against it. I voted against it because the Southern Poverty Law Center, among other groups, said that the guest-worker programs that were embedded in this agreement were akin to slavery. Akin to slavery, where people came into this country to do guest work were abused, were exploited, and if they stood up for their rights, they'd be thrown out of this country. So it wasn't just me who opposed it. It was LULAC, one of the large Latino organizations in this country. It was the AFL-CIO. It was some of the most progressive members of the United States Congress who opposed it for that reason. But we are where we are right now. And where we are right now is we have got to stand up to the Trumps of the world who are trying to divide us up. What we have to do right now is bring our people together and understand that we must provide a path towards citizenship for 11 million undocumented people.”

That isn't anti-immigrant / anti-immigration. Quite the opposite, that's pro-immigrant and pro-immigration. Sanders didn't oppose immigrants being able to work in the US, he opposed migrant workers being abused and exploited by the people they were working for.

Which is essentially what I described in my post that you're responding to as the stand I thought liberals and socialists generally took regarding immigration. Here, please read that part of my previous comment again (or read it for the first time if you skipped over it the first time):

Many people on the left were opposed to the businesses which brought in migrants to make them work in horrible and unhealthy work conditions for way too little in pay, but the sentiment I recall was wanting migrants to be treated decently and paid decently -- not to end immigration or to kick out immigrants, but to welcome them and (as expressed in "This Land Is Your Land") treat them as valued members or our national family.

That's the position Bernie Sanders held. Not the anti-immigrant position you're trying to pin on him. And the fact his actual stance is so different from what you're trying to attribute to him is a likely explanation of why you didn't actually quote him to provide a clear view of his stance.

If you honestly believe that liberals and socialists hold anti-immigrant views, you need to provide actual evidence. So far (in the comments in this thread I've read) you haven't managed to do that.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Trump basically stopped illegal immigration. As close as you can get, really.

By turning the USA into one of those ◊◊◊◊-hole countries that the refugees were trying to flee from. Congrats...I guess.

 

[Trausti]

We could also ask can Democrats concede on immigration?

The conventional wisdom among the American left is making too many concessions makes Democrats look like Republicans without actually gaining Republican support, so Democrats gain little from moderating their stances. I think immigration is a strong exception.

As you may know the Left wasn’t always pro-immigration/amnesty/open borders. Liberals and socialists alike generally opposed immigration since the early 20th century, concerned that an influx of foreign workers would depress wages and they criticized the big business lobby fighting to bring them in. Until fairly recently you could see Democrats like Chuck Schumer and Bernie Sanders using similar language, though by the late 2000s they were both receptive to amnesty for illegals. Chuck Schumer went from refusing to even use the term “undocumented worker” to fighting for amnesty for 11 million of them.

Looking at demographics, the Pew Research Center says about 44 percent of Democratic party voters are nonwhite. The vast majority are not recent immigrants, but a sizeable chunk of Hispanics and Asians are second-generation immigrants. And younger voters lean Democrat.

I think there is an opportunity to steal a good chunk of the populist Right by doing the usual lefty progressive stuff + closed borders and deportations. Democrats could be favored in every election cycle for the next several decades. I’ve always believed that economic anxiety was subordinate to white anxiety in the 2016 presidential election. The Old Left would have exploited the situation immediately.

But is the motivation there today? Will immigrants and their descendants go along with it? I’m not sure they can. I think the leftwing of the Democratic party (Left progressives, DSA, etc) is stuck with a multiracial coalition who may not be all that ideological and not enthusiastic about class conflict. But it’s tough for the ideologues to openly reject them.

I think this is close to correct. The Danish leftist party took this route - tighten immigration, increase deportation, but keep the social programs - and won.

 

[Venom]

That's the position Bernie Sanders held. Not the anti-immigrant position you're trying to pin on him. And the fact his actual stance is so different from what you're trying to attribute to him is a likely explanation of why you didn't actually quote him to provide a clear view of his stance.

If you honestly believe that liberals and socialists hold anti-immigrant views, you need to provide actual evidence. So far (in the comments in this thread I've read) you haven't managed to do that.

From an interview with Vox a year before your examples

Ezra Klein​

You said being a democratic socialist means a more international view. I think if you take global poverty that seriously, it leads you to conclusions that in the US are considered out of political bounds. Things like sharply raising the level of immigration we permit, even up to a level of open borders. About sharply increasing ...

Bernie Sanders​

Open borders? No, that's a Koch brothers proposal.

Ezra Klein​

Really?

Bernie Sanders​

Of course. That's a right-wing proposal, which says essentially there is no United States. ...

Ezra Klein​

But it would make ...

Bernie Sanders​

Excuse me ...

Ezra Klein​

It would make a lot of global poor richer, wouldn't it?

Bernie Sanders​

It would make everybody in America poorer —you're doing away with the concept of a nation state, and I don't think there's any country in the world that believes in that. If you believe in a nation state or in a country called the United States or UK or Denmark or any other country, you have an obligation in my view to do everything we can to help poor people.What right-wing people in this country would love is an open-border policy. Bring in all kinds of people, work for $2 or $3 an hour, that would be great for them. I don't believe in that. I think we have to raise wages in this country, I think we have to do everything we can to create millions of jobs.

You know what youth unemployment is in the United States of America today? If you're a white high school graduate, it's 33 percent, Hispanic 36 percent, African American 51 percent. You think we should open the borders and bring in a lot of low-wage workers, or do you think maybe we should try to get jobs for those kids?

I think from a moral responsibility we've got to work with the rest of the industrialized world to address the problems of international poverty, but you don't do that by making people in this country even poorer.

​

 

[Manopolus]

Pretty sure your beliefs about "What democrats' position on immigration are" is actually "What Fox News (Or worse... Alex Jones. Not sure who you guys listen to anymore) says democrats want to do about immigration." Because what you're saying their position is has no relation whatsoever to what Democrats are actually saying.

And yeah, that's intentional. On both sides. Read Machiavelli for details. The ones pulling the puppet strings are the ones that own the press outlets (both sides of the argument)... not even the political class per se. And you're a marionette, my friend.


The only president who passed amnesty for anybody but those who were children when they arrived was Ronald Reagan. Everything since basically just said that if you've lived here since you were a kid, it doesn't make sense to send you "back" to a place you've hardly even meaningfully been. And those weren't amnesty in any real sense.

So... you don't even have presidential examples to fall back on, here.

 

[mumblethrax]

From an interview with Vox a year before your examples

Those quotes are neither anti-immigrant nor anti-immigration.

 

[Trausti]

Those quotes are neither anti-immigrant nor anti-immigration.

But those quotes reflect the once held Democrat position that mass immigration is not good.

 

[Venom]

Those quotes are neither anti-immigrant nor anti-immigration.

He makes clear he's from an older generation of leftists who put class first and don't want to dismantle the nation-state. Compare that to what you hear today from "the squad" and associated acts.

 

[mumblethrax]

He makes clear he's from an older generation of leftists who put class first and don't want to dismantle the nation-state. Compare that to what you hear today from "the squad" and associated acts.

You'll have to point me to where "the squad" and associated acts express a desire to "dismantle the nation-state". And they (the DSA left) definitely still put class first.

But those quotes reflect the once held Democrat position that mass immigration is not good.

No they don't. Bernie isn't a Democrat, and he does not express any opposition to mass immigration in that quote.