• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Cont: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine part 9

Andy_Ross said:
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

Ukraine has agreed not to hit Russian Energy targets. Russia has agreed to do, likewise! The World’s Diesel price rise is mostly caused by the Russia/Ukraine War, not Iran. President DJT
Click to expand...

If that works out it seems like Ukraine dealt itself a trump* card to play, to see its people through the winter.

*No relation.
 
SpuriusMaximus said:
I mean, there are special rounds for the 40mm NATO grenade launcher that have IIRC 7 .22 LR cartridges in a steel shell, much like a revolver's cylinder, except rigged to chainfire, so you could just give the soldiers a couple of those if you wanted to. It still wouldn't help you kill a drone flying 2000m above and targeted at a town, though.
Click to expand...
Personal weapons would be for squad defence, anything at 2000m above a town would be someone else's problem.

All the standard 5.65 NATO rounds have enough energy to take down a drone, all they need is a sight that will put them on target.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
If that works out it seems like Ukraine dealt itself a trump* card to play, to see its people through the winter.
Click to expand...
I'll need confirmation from someone else than the orange habitual liar. Also, knowing russia, it remains to be seen how long the agreement will last, if it even exists.

Also, while I get it'll help Ukrainian civilians enormously, it'll also let the russian oil industry recover, so really bittersweet news.
 
Andy_Ross said:
Personal weapons would be for squad defence, anything at 2000m above a town would be someone else's problem.

All the standard 5.65 NATO rounds have enough energy to take down a drone, all they need is a sight that will put them on target.
Click to expand...
Yes, but they're not trying to protect themselves against a drone. They're also trying to protect a town against a Shahed. They save the few missiles for Kinzhals and the like. Shaheds and whatnot ARE the autocannon AA's problem. Well, that and electronic warfare's problem. Their main problem isn't Russian drones targetting a squad, it's a Russian bigger drone targeting a nice residential area in a city.
 
Mandatory:

It's way worse than the German version, but it beats the auto-generated subtitles by a mile, so eh, it will have to do.
 
SpuriusMaximus said:
Yes, but they're not trying to protect themselves against a drone. They're also trying to protect a town against a Shahed. They save the few missiles for Kinzhals and the like. Shaheds and whatnot ARE the autocannon AA's problem. Well, that and electronic warfare's problem. Their main problem isn't Russian drones targetting a squad, it's a Russian bigger drone targeting a nice residential area in a city.
Click to expand...
Yes, hat's where an emplaced or vehicle mounted weapon is used, or sir to air
I thought we were talking about infantry squad weapons?
 
Andy_Ross said:
Yes, hat's where an emplaced or vehicle mounted weapon is used, or sir to air
I thought we were talking about infantry squad weapons?
Click to expand...
Well, my point was complementary: why Ukraine needs more capable stuff than just defending a squad from a drone. Since their doctrine for defence of their cities is all about using the rare and expensive missiles only for ballistic missiles like the Kinzhal and leaving the drones and cruise missiles to truck mounted machineguns and autocannons.

Not contradicting your point about squad defence, just adding that Ukraine has bigger fish to fry with those weapons.
 
For me the big unanswered question is, how is Ukraine currently protecting its assault troops?

For months now, Ukraine has not been simply rushing in, blowing up a few infiltrators, and then rushing out again before Moscow's drones and artillery catch them. They've been advancing, taking, and holding ground, square kilometers at a time. Clearly they're already doing something super effective, to keep Russian drones off their backs during offensive operations. What is it? Shotguns? Truck-mounted machine guns? Magic?

ETA: Here's RFU News talking about Ukraine's latest progress in the Lyman(?) direction. They've accomplished a river crossing and advanced faster than Moscow can set up a new defensive line.

According to the conventional wisdom of the drone battlefield, this kind of thing should be almost impossible without heavy casualties. But Ukraine is doing it (and, just as important, Moscow is not). So what's going on?
 
Last edited:
Andy_Ross said:
No that's not going to happen.

Standard Infantry squad weapons with data sighting and sensors is the way to go, they are already being issued to special forces for use against ground targets.
Burdening a squad with special weapon just for drones or a special cartridge to reload with in addition to their existing weapons and equipment is not the way to go.
Click to expand...
It’s a little clumsy analogy and I can’t remember where I read it but: armed forces can be divided into those who man the equipment and those who equip the man.
 
How Ukraine defeats most Kinzhal:

(It's a 2 minute short for Pete's sake. Anyone complaining about not having the time to watch a 2 minute video will be mercilessly pointed and laughed at.)
 
Last edited:
Safe-Keeper said:
My favorite part of the Lyman debacle is how apparently russia didn't realize how badly the situation was deteriorating, and so they just kept sending reinforcements into what has essentially turned into a kill zone. Just staggering russian incompetence on display.

As usual😏.
Click to expand...
It's not really incompetence. It's their style. They will suffocate you with their corpses. It has its limits, but it has worked many times in the past.
 
Nato fighter pilots have shot down a drone that entered Lithuania's airspace overnight, the Lithuanian president said.

Authorities said the drone likely entered southern Lithuania, near the second-largest city of Kaunas, from neighbouring Belarus shortly after midnight on Tuesday

www.bbc.co.uk

Nato jets shoot down drone that flew into Lithuanian airspace

It is currently unknown where the drone came from, officials said.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
 
Andy_Ross said:
Jared Kushner on Ukraine:

President Putin's laid out his line of what he wants to achieve.

If Ukraine, you know, wanted to withdraw to that line, then obviously, you know, we have the rest of the deal set up and put together.

Ukraine right now does not want to do that.

Video in link
Click to expand...
No doubt ninja'd, but a FoP (Friend of Putin) just funded Don Junior's wedding to the tune of six figures*. With Jared and Ivanka in attendance. All of them visible in a single photo. They aren't even trying to deny it.

* Six figures of US$. About 14 figures of rubles.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom