Cont: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine part 9

[icerat]

Telling Russia to stop attacking won't solve anything. The only reason to do it is because it's the right thing to do.

Pretty damn good reason, in my book

Everyone on Ukraine's side is trying to figure out a way to liberate the occupied territories without goading Moscow into using nukes. It's a difficult needle to thread, and even Obama and Biden tread cautiously.

And it's stupid. The NATO "progressive escalation" policy in defence of Ukraine was never going to work and has clearly not worked. Putin's entire strategy to the west is one of trolling and intimidation. Scare them into stopping support for Ukraine so Ukraine capitulates.

The entire of the west stops supporting Ukraine tomorrow, Ukrainians will keep fighting. The entire of Ukraine is occupied, Ukrainians will keep fighting.

The war ends when even Russia admits Russia can't afford it anymore.

 

[theprestige]

Denys Davydov discusses the latest developments in the Lyman direction:

Can someone please show me where Moscow has had similar success in gaining ground, anywhere along the front, any time in the past six months? Because it seems to me that there are many such examples from the Ukrainian side, and none from the Russian side. But people still seem heavily invested in the narrative that Moscow continues to gain ground and Ukraine struggles to hold.

 

[Andy_Ross]

German AfD Leader Alice Weidel on Ukraine:

We will stop payments to Ukraine and all support for the war, and we will also make substantial repayment demands on Ukraine.

Video in link

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

BTW, on September 3rd Ukraine has officially confirmed that they're using the Skyranger 35 turrets from Rheinmetall, mounted on a refurbished Leopard 1 hull. And have been using them since May. That thing fires a 35mm projectile that's programmed at the muzzle to explode in front of a drone into a cloud of tungsten balls that shred everything in their path. Essentially the shell becomes the mother of all shotguns, firing point-blank at the drone.

 

[Andy_Ross]

BTW, on September 3rd Ukraine has officially confirmed that they're using the Skyranger 35 turrets from Rheinmetall, mounted on a refurbished Leopard 1 hull. And have been using them since May. That thing fires a 35mm projectile that's programmed at the muzzle to explode in front of a drone into a cloud of tungsten balls that shred everything in their path. Essentially the shell becomes the mother of all shotguns, firing point-blank at the drone.

Proximity fuse. Invented by the British and developed in to a usable fuse by the Americans in WW2 when the research and prototypes were shared as part of the technology swapping that resulted in rapid advances weapons, radar and engine technology.
It transformed the effectiveness of AA fire. Back then it could only be made small enough for guns in the 4 to 5 unch calibre range.
With modern components they can be miniaturised to the 20 to 40mm range.
35 to 40mm seems to be the optimal size for the best combination of damage, muzzle velocity and weapon size. It gives the best compromise of range, speed of train and rate of fire with sufficient lethality.
35mm proximity fused ammunition is already in use in ship mounted cannon systems.
A similar Franco- British designed turret system has also been successfully trialled in Ukraine and is going in to production.
Both systems can be mounted on ground vehicle or ship mounts.

Skyranger 35 Leopard


Franco-British Rapidfire system.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Not just AA effectiveness was transformed, as artillery became much deadlier against troops in the open when shells could reliably burst just before they hit the ground. Proximity detection is of course a different tech from on-the-fly programmable fuses, which can be told by the gun either to count a specific time after firing or number of revolutions spun before going bang.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Not just AA effectiveness was transformed, as artillery became much deadlier against troops in the open when shells could reliably burst just before they hit the ground. Proximity detection is of course a different tech from on-the-fly programmable fuses, which can be told by the gun either to count a specific time after firing or number of revolutions spun before going bang.

Yes, Proximity fused artillery was a deciding factor in breaking up German infantry attacks in the Ardennes.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Jared Kushner on Ukraine:

President Putin's laid out his line of what he wants to achieve.

If Ukraine, you know, wanted to withdraw to that line, then obviously, you know, we have the rest of the deal set up and put together.

Ukraine right now does not want to do that.

Video in link

 

[Jack by the hedge]

No kidding? If Ukraine had wanted to give in to whatever Putin wants, they could have given up their country years ago without assistance.

What are we to imagine "the rest of the deal" is, that he thinks might entice them to surrender their country to that invader?

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

Proximity fuse. Invented by the British and developed in to a usable fuse by the Americans in WW2 when the research and prototypes were shared as part of the technology swapping that resulted in rapid advances weapons, radar and engine technology.

No, this one is not a proximity fuse, it's the plain old timed fuse that was used long before WW2. The difference is that instead of each fuse taking time to be set before the gun enters the chamber, this one has a computer calculate the time to target and the fuse is programmed by radio as it exits the barrel.

 

[Andy_Ross]

No, this one is not a proximity fuse, it's the plain old timed fuse that was used long before WW2. The difference is that instead of each fuse taking time to be set before the gun enters the chamber, this one has a computer calculate the time to target and the fuse is programmed by radio as it exits the barrel.

It's still a proximity fuse, they have offloaded the proximity detection to the computer and sensor on the turret. That's how it can be made to work in such a small munition and still have enough lethality to take down a drone. Also they are base fused to allow the forward cone of lethality needed. Traditional proximity rounds are nose fused and their burst is uniform.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

So it's a proximity fuse.

Then so was the shell used by the German 88 or the Flak used by the brits during the Blitz. Or the fuse used on a grenade. Or in use against infantry, so was the Boxer fuse invented in 1853, also by the Brits. Hell, then so was the even earlier Shrapnel shell, named after the Brit who invented it.

The term proximity fuse refers to shells which are literally triggered by proximity. As in, the fuse detects proximity and it detonates itself. A timed fuse is detonated by time in flight. It will still burst after that set time, regardless of whether the target is anywhere near or not. If another Skyranger ninja'd your kill first, your fuse will still burst where the drone should have been.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

Also they are base fused to allow the forward cone of lethality needed. Traditional proximity rounds are nose fused and their burst is uniform.

I don't think it matters where the fuse is. It's got to do with where the explosive is in relation to the tungsten balls.

ETA: think of the Claymore mine. The fuse is on top. But that doesn't make the balls go downward. It's the explosive that matters.

 

[Andy_Ross]

I don't think it matters where the fuse is. It's got to do with where the explosive is in relation to the tungsten balls.

ETA: think of the Claymore mine. The fuse is on top. But that doesn't make the balls go downward. It's the explosive that matters.

The fuse placement does matter. If there's one thing I know about it's artillery fuses and their types and placement.

I think I still have my study and exam notes somewhere, although there have been developments over the last 35 years or so.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

Ah, guess you must have just used the wrong word there. It happens to all of us. No worries.

 

[Andy_Ross]

John Fitzgerald Kennedy (jnr)
@jfkinexile

Wow… Trump is not playing games.

Trump says he believes Russia and the People of Ukraine are willing to make a deal, but that Zelensky is not.

Trump warns Zelensky that he “won’t be around very long” if he is not willing to make a peace deal.

Scorched-earth on Zelensky

Video in link

 

[Jack by the hedge]

John Fitzgerald Kennedy (jnr)
@jfkinexile

Wow… Trump is not playing games.

Trump says he believes Russia and the People of Ukraine are willing to make a deal, but that Zelensky is not.

Trump warns Zelensky that he “won’t be around very long” if he is not willing to make a peace deal.

Scorched-earth on Zelensky

Video in link

I seem to recall that's some nonentity borrowing the Kennedy name.

Trump may well have said he believed that, but there is zero chance he does. He's trying to get some kind of movement so he can claim to be ending a war before the midterms, but he doesn't appear to have any useful cards. I mean he could block the sale of Patriots but that would look like a dick move to the US voters and would actually count against him.

 

[a_unique_person]

I seem to recall that's some nonentity borrowing the Kennedy name.

Trump may well have said he believed that, but there is zero chance he does. He's trying to get some kind of movement so he can claim to be ending a war before the midterms, but he doesn't appear to have any useful cards. I mean he could block the sale of Patriots but that would look like a dick move to the US voters and would actually count against him.

Russian troll?

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Trump warns Zelensky that he “won’t be around very long” if he is not willing to make a peace deal.

Okay, I have a policy to not reply to bad-faith posts most of the time, which includes all the ramblings from the chronically attention-craving orange buffoon, but TF is that even supposed to mean? Is he catering to the people who seem to think Ukraine is an American territory or European colony where we call the shots, and Dump can just impeach Zelensky if he wants to?

 

[Andy_Ross]

Russian troll?

Trump? yes he is