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Cont: The Russian Invasion of Ukraine part 9

Andy_Ross said:
It seems Russian officials have biologically evolved to be harder to push out of windows.


WarMonitor🇺🇦🇬🇧
@WarMonitor3
The head of Russia's Rossotrudnichestvo in a press conference today talking about Russia's deteriorating relationship with Armenia…

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Link
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It's no wonder Putin is making hard work of taking territory in Ukraine when he's less competent that Gripper Stebson when it comes to stealing Roland's dinner money.
 
plague311 said:
On the plus side, we've seen Russia do this song and dance a few times before. They've mobilized hundreds of thousands of men only to end up where they are now. Granted, Ukraine is struggling to recruit, having some issues with corruption and a bit of a problem with leadership, but overall we've seen them handle these mobilizations before. While Russia is fielding fresh faces, Ukraine is fielding seasoned veterans.

I also read a story about how Ukranians are making advancements with their missile program and it looks like they have some pretty impressive stuff on the horizon.


That could be a real game-changer for Ukraine. I don't know that Russia is really advancing forward with their military technology. It kind of seems like they're counting on zerg tactics and nothing more.
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Russia's been advancing their drone capabilities, pretty much in tandem with Ukraine. Lack of supplies, organization, and trained crews keeps them lagging a bit behind, but in terms of raw tech they're pretty much on par. The Ukrainians seem like they might have an edge in interceptor guidance and terminal guidance (AI) for strike drones.

The Ukrainians also seem to be more adept at fielding low-tech solutions from the opposite end of the spectrum: Just going up in a postwar prop plane with a window gunner. I have to admit that "weapon systems officer means guy in the back seat with a machine gun to shoot down drones" wasn't on my bingo card.
 
theprestige said:
The Ukrainians also seem to be more adept at fielding low-tech solutions from the opposite end of the spectrum: Just going up in a postwar prop plane with a window gunner. I have to admit that "weapon systems officer means guy in the back seat with a machine gun to shoot down drones" wasn't on my bingo card.
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Can a machine gun be fitted with projectiles with shotgun pellets? In my naive mind it seems a good idea.
 
steenkh said:
Can a machine gun be fitted with projectiles with shotgun pellets? In my naive mind it seems a good idea.
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I know the Russians at least experimented with AK ammunition with a load of pellets. The downside is you don't get many pellets in a shot, and you likely don't get time to switch magazines, so you need to be loaded with that ammo, which is useless if you suddenly need to engage something 100m away. Probably better to have a real shotgun, despite the extra weight and clutter.
 
steenkh said:
Can a machine gun be fitted with projectiles with shotgun pellets? In my naive mind it seems a good idea.
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Seems like that to me as well. But I defer to the Ukrainians, who are currently the world's leading experts on the subject.


I think if you're trying to defend a key location against drone swarms that have already got through your long-range and mid-range defenses, you're probably better off with a radar guided anti aircraft gun like the Gepard, or a swarm of short range interceptor drones.

I also think that if you're trying to protect your assault team from FPVs while they're dismounted for an assault, a shotgun isn't going to save you. You probably needed better jamming, better anti-drone coverage from your interceptor team, a quicker operational tempo, or all three.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
I know the Russians at least experimented with AK ammunition with a load of pellets. The downside is you don't get many pellets in a shot, and you likely don't get time to switch magazines, so you need to be loaded with that ammo, which is useless if you suddenly need to engage something 100m away. Probably better to have a real shotgun, despite the extra weight and clutter.
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Or someone in the squad loaded with a specialist ammunition that can switch to standard.
Or use something based on the Knights Armament Masterkey.
One of these was featured in the Predator movie so they have been around for a while.
Something more slimline and integrated could be developed

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en.wikipedia.org

Knight's Armament Company Masterkey - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Andy_Ross said:
Or someone in the squad loaded with a specialist ammunition that can switch to standard.
Or use something based on the Knights Armament Masterkey.
One of these was featured in the Predator movie so they have been around for a while.
Something more slimline and integrated could be developed

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en.wikipedia.org

Knight's Armament Company Masterkey - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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For me it still raises the question of what exactly this is supposed to do, if your squad is being swarmed by FPVs during an assault.

Also, a wide range of shotgun variations have been around for a long time now. It's not a lack of options that keeps the Ukrainians from using them as part of their core anti-drone doctrine.
 
Special ammo in small arms calibers is in use, sold by Drone Round (cf.; sorry
that I cant post links) and other makers, e.g., NSWC Crane.

The gist of the technology is to make bullets that shatter into pre-shaped fragments approximately
150 meters from the muzzle, utilizing centrifugal force generated by a spinning bullet with an offset
core and cuts in the bullet jacket.

The idea is that everybody in the squad packs a magazine filled with anti drone ammo. When threats
appear, one or more designated* shooters load -- fast -- with the good stuff and start scanning
the whereabouts. I believe that if a drone is spotted, a mag dump, normally frowned upon by deployed
infantry, will be A-OK.

* Designated, by Lt. Calley: "Kay, we need a stand-up volunteer dude to badass on drones. Sackett, you
volunteered! I heard ya! Go through the ammo point again 'n draw your spec mags. Muh, waitaminnit,
you'll need backup. Pick yer man -- hey, Cap Swoop, good choice! One o' you take our six 'n other one
take point, kay. And quit salutin' me, goddammit! Dontcha know we're in sniper country?"
 
Meant to immediately add this to my previous post, but the forum decied to completely refuse to load for 5-10 minutes, so:

Norwegian news just reported that Zelensky's plane was almost hit by a drone as it took off from Moldova on its way to Oslo😱. Scary stuff, would've been a horrible irony if he had been killed on his way to a peaceful mission to see a fallen ally off.

I mean, obviously he also took the opportunity to discuss the Ukraine war with our prime minister, but it'd be a waste of an opportunity if he hadn't.
 
sackett said:
Special ammo in small arms calibers is in use, sold by Drone Round (cf.; sorry
that I cant post links) and other makers, e.g., NSWC Crane.

The gist of the technology is to make bullets that shatter into pre-shaped fragments approximately
150 meters from the muzzle, utilizing centrifugal force generated by a spinning bullet with an offset
core and cuts in the bullet jacket.

The idea is that everybody in the squad packs a magazine filled with anti drone ammo. When threats
appear, one or more designated* shooters load -- fast -- with the good stuff and start scanning
the whereabouts. I believe that if a drone is spotted, a mag dump, normally frowned upon by deployed
infantry, will be A-OK.

* Designated, by Lt. Calley: "Kay, we need a stand-up volunteer dude to badass on drones. Sackett, you
volunteered! I heard ya! Go through the ammo point again 'n draw your spec mags. Muh, waitaminnit,
you'll need backup. Pick yer man -- hey, Cap Swoop, good choice! One o' you take our six 'n other one
take point, kay. And quit salutin' me, goddammit! Dontcha know we're in sniper country?"
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I am very skeptical that this will be of sny use st all or even work.
 
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