Merged Concerns over baby killer ignored? / Nurse Lucy Letby killed babies in her care

[Mojo]

The point I was making was that mothers accused of killing their own children are not comparable to health workers accused of mass harm to patients they have access to.

But only because you can't understand why they were accused.

For example, mental illness such as post-natal psychosis becomes a factor.

In cases where there wasn't actually a murder?

Why do you assume that women accused of a crime are suffering from "mental illness such as post-natal psychosis"?

 

[Vixen]

But only because you can't understand why they were accused.

In cases where there wasn't actually a murder?

Why do you assume that women accused of a crime are suffering from "mental illness such as post-natal psychosis"?

We don't know 'there wasn't actually a murder' until there has been a trial and appeal process. You seem unable to comprehend how it works.

 

[Mojo]

We don't know 'there wasn't actually a murder' until there has been a trial and appeal process. You seem unable to comprehend how it works.

Why did you assume that they were suffering from "some kind of post-natal hormone-induced psychosis"?

 

[Vixen]

Why did you assume that they were suffering from "some kind of post-natal hormone-induced psychosis"?

Please refer to my earlier answer.

 

[Mojo]

Please refer to my earlier answer.

Which one?

Link, please.

I can't see anything you have posted that establishes that it was for any reason other than that they were female.

 

[Mojo]

We don't know 'there wasn't actually a murder'

It was established in court, but you still seem to be assuming that the defendants were suffering from "some kind of post-natal hormone-induced psychosis".

Looks like blatant misogyny to me. Do you have any better excuse?

 

[Vixen]

It was established in court, but you still seem to be assuming that the defendants were suffering from "some kind of post-natal hormone-induced psychosis".

Looks like blatant misogyny to me. Do you have any better excuse?

I see. You think you are being clever. You are not actually interested in criminology.

 

[Mojo]

I see. You think you are being clever. You are not actually interested in criminology.

Why did you assume that Sally Clark, Angela Cannings and Donna Anthony, women who were wrongly accused of killing their children, were suffering from "some kind of post-natal hormone-induced psychosis"?

 

[Vixen]

Why did you assume that Sally Clark, Angela Cannings and Donna Anthony, women who were wrongly accused of killing their children, were suffering from "some kind of post-natal hormone-induced psychosis"?

If you wish to discuss a completely different area of criminal law, please may I suggest you start a new thread? Clark, Channing and Anthony have nothing to do with the Letby case.

Clark's first son, Christopher, was born on 22 September 1996. Court documents describe him as a healthy baby. On 13 December Clark called an ambulance to the family home. The baby had fallen unconscious after being put to bed, and was declared dead after being taken to hospital.[6] Clark had post-natal depression and received counselling at the Priory Clinic, but was in recovery by the time her second son, Harry, was born three weeks premature on 29 November 1997.[6][1] However, he was also found dead on 26 January 1998, aged 8 weeks.[6] On both occasions, Clark was at home alone with her baby and there was evidence of trauma, which could have been related to attempts to resuscitate them.[7]

Can you confirm you are not just taking the p!ss, as I note you follow me around asking endless questions which comes across as harassment.

 

[Mojo]

If you wish to discuss a completely different area of criminal law, please may I suggest you start a new thread? Clark, Channing and Anthony have nothing to do with the Letby case.

You really should try reading what's been posted in this thread.

 

[Mojo]

Can you confirm you are not just taking the p!ss...

I can confirm that I am not just taking the piss. I was asking why you immediately assumed that the most important thing about three women wrongly accused of killing their children was that they may have been suffering from "some kind of post-natal hormone-induced psychosis". And, indeed, why you assumed that they were.

 

[Vixen]

You really should try reading what's been posted in this thread.

Look, Clark, Canning and Anthony had their convictions quashed as unsafe, largely because of Roy Meadow's egregious statistics plus the other failings re the lab report in Clark's case. Nothing at all to do with Letby.

When Clark was cleared, I was delighted and thrilled for her. However, when looking at the cold details of a court case you have to remember that the Crown represents the alleged victim/s on behalf of the England & Wales public. The CPS really doesn't just bring cases to court for no reason or no probable cause.

It is facile and nonsensical to claim the CPS systematically convicts women of murder for specious reasons with zero evidence. Please try to take a more balanced view instead of claiming all convicted killers are really a case of Miscarriage of Justice. Also, please try to remember, these babies and their parents are also entitled to receive fair justice.

 

[Vixen]

I can confirm that I am not just taking the piss. I was asking why you immediately assumed that the most important thing about three women wrongly accused of killing their children was that they may have been suffering from "some kind of post-natal hormone-induced psychosis". And, indeed, why you assumed that they were.

I did criminology in my second year degree course and that is the common situation for infanticide. A very different crime from other types of murder.

 

[Mojo]

I did criminology in my second year degree course and that is the common situation for infanticide. A very different crime from other types of murder.

Have you still failed to understand that none of them actually committed infanicide?

Or do you just assume that any woman accused of a crime is mentally ill?

 

[Vixen]

Have you still failed to understand that none of them actually committed infanicide?

Or do you just assume that any woman accused of a crime is mentally ill?

Er, they were charged with murder were they not and they were convicted in a Criminal Court of Law. They had their sentences quashed. We are looking at what constitutes making a conviction unsafe. To say, oh this applies to Letby because she is also a female accused of killing little children is arrant nonsense, and a waste of everybody's time.

And yes, post-natal depression is real and can be exceedingly serious.

 

[Mojo]

Er, they were charged with murder were they not and they were convicted in a Criminal Court of Law. They had their sentences quashed.

And in all cases the alleged murders hadn't actually happened.

Why did you assume that they were suffering from "some kind of post-natal hormone-induced psychosis"?

 

[smartcooky]

The Lucy Letby - Miscarriage of Justice ? | **DR JANE HAWDON: SHE REVIEWED 17 BABIES BEFORE THE POLICE INVESTIGATION — AND FOUND EXPLANATIONS FOR 13** | Facebook

**DR JANE HAWDON: SHE REVIEWED 17 BABIES BEFORE THE POLICE INVESTIGATION — AND FOUND EXPLANATIONS FOR 13** Before Dr Dewi Evans entered the Lucy Letby investigation and began identifying alleged...

www.facebook.com

Before Dr Dewi Evans entered the Lucy Letby investigation and began identifying alleged methods of murder, the Countess of Chester Hospital had already asked an independent consultant neonatologist to examine the babies’ records.​

Her name was Dr Jane Hawdon.​

​

Hawdon was an experienced consultant neonatologist from the Royal Free London. In 2016, she was asked to review the records of 17 babies who had died or collapsed on the Countess of Chester neonatal unit.​

​

What she found is remarkably important.​

​

She was able to identify clinical explanations for 13 of the 17 cases.​

She did not suggest that babies had been deliberately injected with air.​

​

She did not identify a serial killer.​

​

She did not conclude that Lucy Letby had deliberately harmed anyone.​

​

Instead, her review raised concerns about the clinical management of some of these extremely vulnerable babies, including signs of deterioration that had not always been recognised or acted upon adequately.​

Her findings were remarkably similar to those later arrived at by Dr Shoo Lee and his team...well colour me surprised.

 

[catsmate]

Red herring. The notes for the mothers has nothing to do with the case.

You are incapable of understanding that. The causescif death may, according to expert testimony, be related to the health of the babies.

 

[catsmate]

I am not aware I am wrong.

You lack of self-awareness is unsurprising.

 

[catsmate]

What makes you think these two are mutually exclusive?

True.