• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Apollo 11 Moon Landing Revisited: Hoax ~vs~ Debunk

This might help.

@Vixen claims to qualify for membership in this society, which is tantamount to claiming she has scored in the 99.9th percentile of some standard intelligence test. This corresponds closely to three standard deviations above mean tested intelligence (although the "above" may remain in question in her case). In contrast, she maintains her critics have only "mean sd" intelligence, and has at times characterized them as "low intellect."

Since she cannot seem to demonstrate at this forum even an ordinary level of intelligence in important areas, the claim is clearly false. It may end up to be technically true depending on what test she took and when. But since she exhibits almost complete illiteracy in scientific and quantitative reasoning, it simply is not possible for anyone having those deficiencies to lay a claim to overall stellar intelligence. Those modes of reasoning contribute too much to an overall intelligence assessment for an incapacity in them to allow "triple-niner" status. We therefore dismiss her claims to superior intelligence as any sort of useful premise to her arguments.

At times @Vixen has claimed that her allegedly superior intelligence nevertheless enables her to reason correctly through problems in which she cannot demonstrate required specialized knowledge. She claims she is better at the "abstract concepts" and doesn't need to bother with factual details. At other times she claims that her allegedly superior intelligence creates a difficulty in communicating with her "low intellect" critics because of the so-called Simonton Gap. She cites this as an excuse for why large numbers of people frequently can't figure out what she's trying to say.

It's more likely that her claim to superior intelligence contrasted with her demonstrated incompetence is simply meant to attract attention—even if it's negative. It's likely a put-on.

I'm reminded of "Keith" from season 2 of American Idol who steadfastly maintained that he was a superstar destined for fame despite his nasal, off-key vocals. Simon Cowell opined that he might be the worst singer in the entire world. Having coached singers for American Idol auditions and having learned from participants how the contestants are selected, I can say it would ordinarily have been out of the question for "Keith" to return in season 3. But his delusional confidence was too cringy to ignore, and the show is ultimately about viewership even if it must occasionally resort to cringe to get it.

Similarly @Vixen's confident delusion of superior understanding in the face of elementary error (whether genuine or not) attracts more attention and comment than reasonable disagreement. Therefore it expands her page count, which seems to be what she's most interested in here at the forum. It goes hand in hand with her inability to admit even simple errors graciously. If you can't be smart, be cringy and they'll still pay attention to you.
No, that is not true. My assertion was a rebuttal in self defence. I certainly don't consider personal characteristics makes one better or worse than anyone else.
 
I’m bored, I’m going to take a stab at these. The instrument Vixen is referring to is probably a sextant.

I’ve no idea, because like the vast majority of people, including you, I have no practical or useful knowledge in how to use a sextant to actually determine my position if I was adrift at sea. Go on Vixen, tell us that you know how to use a sextant and could actually accurately determine your position (to within 10 feet accuracy!) if you were adrift at sea in 1887.

How did I calculate GMT from my pocket watch BTW? Assuming that the watch is perfectly accurate for the purposes of the discussion, then “calculating” GMT is just a matter of knowing what time zone the time was set to, and adjusting for that. For example if we set off from Britain and my watch was set to GMT, then “calculating” GMT is just a matter of looking at the watch and reading the time.

Somewhere off the south coast of Ireland. Looks like it’s about 30 miles or so. What’s the point of this question, to see if I know how to read a map? I don’t have an atlas, so I just put the co-ordinates into Google Earth.

Kimo Sapi has managed to figure out my co-ordinates to a tenth of a second of latitude and longitude. That’s to within about 10ft precision, yet you also say the error margin is “a few nautical miles”. Which is it? Is he able to calculate our co-ordinates to within feet, or to within a few miles?


The obvious correct answer is to simply ask Kimo Sapi which way to head. He knows how to use a sextant and figure out where we are, so he clearly knows how to navigate using celestial bodies. It looks like the nearest land is either Cork or Kerry, directly north, I’m sure he can figure out where north is.

Can I remind you Vixen that you’re meant to be explaining to me, in baby steps, i.e. starting off from basic premises and explaining each step to me like I’m a student that doesn’t know any of this, the logistics of transmitting TV footage from the moon to the earth, in 1969, via a “non-geopositioned” satellite?
JesseCuster, that's great! You just need to look up the longitude bit re noon sun and also be aware in which direction the sun rises and sun sets (that'll give you a pointer as to direction) and look out for the North Star as that'll be northwards. So it's good progress you are becoming spatially aware in respect of positioning.
 
Last edited:
I think @Vixen's attempt to teach has properly come to an end.

  • (a) immediately above the area your friend is driving
  • (b) for it to be 'hands-free' it needs to travel at the same speed as the Earth's orbit
  • (c) the car needs to be red
  • (d) it will go into orbit at the same speed as Earth* at:
  • (i) 250km high
  • (ii) 1,000km high
  • (iii) 3,000km
  • (iv) 36,000km high
  • (e) at this point your friend's car, driving along the motorway below, is said to be
  • (i) geostationary
  • (ii) geopositioned
  • (f) at this point the satellite is said to be
  • (i) geostationary
  • (ii) geopositioned.
Since interlinear comments break the forum formatting, here are the right answers by citation. The requirements for the satellite in question...

(a) No, the satellite does not need to be immediately above the car in order to photograph it. It just needs to have line of sight to the car from its current position in orbit.

(b) There is no requirement that any part of the spacecraft be "hands free." There is no requirement for there to be a moving background behind the car. You're tacking these on to preclude the right answer, not because they're part of the Apollo lunar orbit photography question.

(c) Don't be silly.

(d) All of the above. Any of the orbits you mention is compatible with photographing an object on the ground from orbit, so long as the orbit provides some line of sight to the feature.

(e) A moving car is neither geostationary nor geopositioned. If the car stopped, it could be geopositioned.

(f) Irrelevant. The satellite can be geostationary, but this is not required. A satellite in orbit is never "geopositioned" as you claimed.

Most reconnaissance is actually done from lower orbits. To compensate for motion blur due to forward motion of the satellite, the optical assembly is rotated fore-to-aft to track a point on the ground as the spacecraft passes overhead. The notion that photographing features on a planetary surface can only be accomplished from a geostationary orbit is frankly bonkers. This is what happens when you listen to a magazine publisher and a software project manager as they bumble their way through sciences they clearly don't understand.
 
Last edited:
No, that is not true. My assertion was a rebuttal in self defence. I certainly don't consider personal characteristics makes one better or worse than anyone else.
My statements were correct. You claim superior intelligence. You claim your critics are "low intellect." You claim your superior intelligence combined with your focus on "abstract concepts" makes you better able to reason through problems than experts.

You are not the smartest person in the room and I'm pretty sure you insinuate that you are only to irritate other posters.
 
JesseCuster, that's great! You just need to look up the logitude bit re noon sun...
Be specific. What is the "longitude bit?" What does it mean? How is it computed?

Remember, this exercise is to test your knowledge, not anyone else's.

...and also be aware in which direction the sun rises and sun sets (that'll give you a pointer as to direction)...
Bwahaha, no. At my latitude there's a 70-degree difference between the extremes of sunrise azimuth.

So it's good progress you are becoming spatially aware in respect of positioning.
Give it up. You haven't gotten a single thing right yet.
 
Last edited:
JesseCuster, that's great! You just need to look up the logitude bit re noon sun and also be aware in which direction the sun rises and sun sets (that'll give you a pointer as to direction) and look out for the North Star as that'll be northwards. So it's good progress you are becoming spatially aware in respect of positioning.
Bollocks.
You have no idea how to fix a position using a sextant or why it works.
 
For the record, are we moving away from the whole "logistical challenges of beaming TV to earth from the lunar surface" thing, to something more like Allen and Weaver's original point that you initially misunderstood?

The answer to your bonus question is 1962, if by broadcast you mean public broadcast.
Correct. We'll wait for JesseCuster to catch up before moving on.
 
Correct. We'll wait for JesseCuster to catch up before moving on.
No.

You don't get to cherry-pick one critic and talk only to him. The exercise is to test your knowledge, not his. You're posting in a public forum where your betters have corrected your egregious mistakes.

If you are now abandoning your "logistics" argument, then I have already refuted Allen and Weaver's argument. Address that now, please.
 
My statements were correct. You claim superior intelligence. You claim your critics are "low intellect." You claim your superior intelligence combined with your focus on "abstract concepts" makes you better able to reason through problems than experts.

You are not the smartest person in the room and I'm pretty sure you insinuate that you are only to irritate other posters.
I was explaining why people bully other people and one reason is the majority of people lie - by definition - within one standard deviation of the norm in a Gaussian-curve (the 'Bell Curve') aka the Normal Distribution. Obvs, something as abstract as human intelligence can only approximate to this, but the sentiment remains. For example, in discussing current affairs, people demanded they be moved to 'conspiracy theory', so we see this phenomenon in action. This topic is correctly here but others were thrown out by dint of angry others who presumably represent the 'norm'. So hence my conclusion people truly are mystified as to why anyone would want to question anything.

BTW I have never said anyone had low intellect.
 
Last edited:
No.

You don't get to cherry-pick one critic and talk only to him. The exercise is to test your knowledge, not his. You're posting in a public forum where your betters have corrected your egregious mistakes.

If you are now abandoning your "logistics" argument, then I have already refuted Allen and Weaver's argument. Address that now, please.
JesseCuster on many occasions has asked me the same question over and over again so now I am making sure we are both on the same page.
 
JesseCuster on many occasions has asked me the same question over and over again so now I am making sure we are both on the same page.
No.

People ask you the same question over and over again because you refuse to answer it. The goal is to test your knowledge, not his. I've provided the correct answers to your latest exercise. Address them now, please.
 
No.

People ask you the same question over and over again because you refuse to answer it. The goal is to test your knowledge, not his. I've provided the correct answers to your latest exercise. Address them now, please.
Obvs you are the expert here, and AndyRoss in all things nautical. I don't doubt you are right.
 
Obvs you are the expert here, and AndyRoss in all things nautical. I don't doubt you are right.
Then do you agree that it is not necessary to be in stationary orbit in order to photograph something on the surface below you and have it remain stationary in the frame?
 
Last edited:
You are right that time of season (vernal equinoxes) would need to be adjusted for, which is why anyone conversant with a sextant would take into account.
Given that it's 27th August in a non-leap year, how many vernal equinoxes would you need to adjust for, and how big an adjustment would be needed? Please show your working.
 
I was explaining why people bully other people and one reason is the majority of people lie - by definition - within one standard deviation of the norm in a Gaussian-curve (the 'Bell Curve') aka the Normal Distribution. Obvs, something as abstract as human intelligence can only approximate to this, but the sentiment remains. For example, in discussing current affairs, people demanded they be moved to 'conspiracy theory', so we see this phenomenon in action. This topic is correctly here but others were thrown out by dint of angry others who presumably represent the 'norm'. So hence my conclusion people truly are mystified as to why anyone would want to question anything.

BTW I have never said anyone had low intellect.

By and large the conspiracy mindset isn't questioning anything. It's framing its conclusions in the form of a question. The actual answer to the question they ask is of no interest, they're merely framing their prejudice in a way that tries to make them appear clever. They fail at that. You fail at that. Questioning something is admirable, provided you are prepared to listen to the answers. You are not interested in answers.

I have asked you the same queation repeatedly because you made a claim, but have refused to back up that claim with specifics. Trying to hold you to to account isn't bullying, and resorting to whining about mistreatment as a way of avoiding answering questions is just cowardice.

How was it possible for Apollo imagery to contain details not not known about in advance?
 

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom