Merged Arday life and death

[Vixen]

Why do you think being a bit of a bully to a fellow team member is comparable to multiple acts of academic fraud being overlooked or not even investigated as due diligence for a presitious and respected position that lends acclaim and authority to a person who holds it?

Or more to the point, why do you think that academic fraud is no worse than having once been a dick in school?

Arday's thesis was investigated by the body that awarded it and he was cleared.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

I dunno what it was, but he claimed a hairline fracture not shin splints, resulting from falling on the pavement not just stress on the leg, and that his leg (not foot) swelled to twice its size. And he kept running on that leg for 9 more marathons AND seemingly just 3 days late he was having jolly conversations and exchanging life stories while running.

That's a medical impossibility. I dunno WTH he had (other than being a pathological liar), but what he claimed is 99% certain to be a lie.

I mean, if it were his foot, WTH shoe did he put on a foot twice as big anyway? Did he have a pair of Sideshow Bob clown shoes at home just in case that ever happens?

 

[Vixen]

You're kidding, aren't you?

Maybe you're not. Maybe you just haven't thought through the ramifications of this view. So I'll give it a go... Would you take the same position if, for example, the "random colleague" were a black person who believes they were passed over for a position or promotion because the employer is engaging in discrimination?

Would you still assert that the employer is the only entity that should investigate it, and that other colleagues should not be allowed to tell others if the employer fails to do so. The ramification of your view is the silencing of legitimate whistleblowers.

Now, perhaps you think this is a more important value then defending whistleblowers. If so, that's fine I guess. It's just not my view.

The UK (England & Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland) has robust Employment Law. Discrimination - positive or negative - is illegal (with very limited exceptions that require it). If Professor Arday's Cambridge colleague or fellow job applicant felt they had been passed over for a position or promotion because the employer is engaging in discrimination then they have redress in law. This is very real, not theoretical. Anyone can go to an Employment Tribunal that has the power of law behind it. However, the overlooked candidate/fellow employee needs to first take it up via the proper channels - which would be HR (not the press) - or your claim will simply be struck out. In complaining to HR, it is important to label your complaint clearly that it is a grievance (or HR might claim they simply thought you were having a moan so did nothing) and that you want it investigated. HR is then obliged to tell you why the successful candidate got the job and you didn't and what step-by-step process it went through to ensure fairness and avoidance of any kind of discrimination. If you are still not satisfied, you lodge a claim at HM Courts and Tribunals. An Employment Tribunal judge is generally someone with at least fifteen years experience as a barrister. The tribunal panel is made up of two lay persons, one of whom puts themself in the shoes of the claimant and the other in the shoes of the employer. It is an extremely fair system so it is ludicrous to claim Arday was only taken on because 'they wanted a black dude'.

As for the so-called agitators whistleblowers going to the press, you need to learn to look at press campaigns through sceptical eyes. Press campaigning is extremely powerful. All PR agencies know this, which is why (a) the UK at least has strong subjudice laws to prevent a trial from being prejudiced by prior publicity and speculation and (b) the public are unwary they are being manipulated into believing a particular POV. Most judges dislike concurrent PR campaigns trying to influence a verdict.

My epiphany came some years back when some guy in my social club was widely complaining he had been unfairly dismissed as an executive of some NHS Trust. He had articles all over the place about how he had been wrongly hounded out of his job. So, when his Employment Tribunal hearing came about with much press scrutiny, I was astounded to discover he had lost! It was ruled his sacking was entirely fair! How could this be? The newspapers and the club magazine had been so convincing!!!

So your fantasy that Arday somehow stole the job from a more worthy candidate is exactly that: your fantasy.

 

[Vixen]

I mean, I think sociology is a relatively easy degree to get, and that it isn't as stringent and rigorous as math, physics, chemistry, engineering, etc. Which is what I've always understood the term "Mickey Mouse" to mean.

At best, it lacks veneration for a field, I guess? I would speculate that they think it implies contempt or a lack of value for the study itself? That would be silly, but I do kind of think that's what's going on. I mean, I can kind of see where someone would take that as insulting if their field of study is the most dominant aspect of their identity.

I mean, seriously. Becoming a plumber is a relatively easy thing to do compared to becoming a physicist. But I'm a massive advocate for the skilled trades - they're lucrative and they're unlikely to be replaced by AI or robotics in the near future. They've got the best future, there's always a need, and they're needed everywhere. You're not tied to any particular geographic area - it's not like only cities need plumbers - anywhere people live is someplace they're needed. And to have a solid income that's damned near recession and technology proof, you don't even to be a Master Tradesman - you can be an apprentice along with an array of related trade knowledge, and be a general handyman for a little town in the mountains, or on a reservation, or in a remote research station if you really like solitude.

Your analogy between a plumber and a sociologist is a false one. Vocational 'trades' are just as skillful as academic ones. Academic vocations simply require academic ability, just as some manual trades require manual dexterity. Please stop. You are beginning to sound like Archie Bunker; a few pages ago you were complaining you couldn't comprehend some [admittedly] turgid sociological terminology yet now you are claiming sociology is super easy.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Here's a perspective for you to consider.

Pehaps when Trausti says "people like Arday", they mean "people who would not meet the prior standards of quality, character, and integrity that is expected of a person with a doctorate who attains a professorship at one of the most prestigious universities in the world". Our, to be more blunt - people who only got there because the standards were lowered to make it possible.

Except they, and a lot of the most fervent bashers of Arday, worship just such a person as a god. Then again, he's white orange, so entirely different, of course.

 

[Vixen]

I dunno what it was, but he claimed a hairline fracture not shin splints, resulting from falling on the pavement not just stress on the leg, and that his leg (not foot) swelled to twice its size. And he kept running on that leg for 9 more marathons AND seemingly just 3 days late he was having jolly conversations and exchanging life stories while running.

That's a medical impossibility. I dunno WTH he had (other than being a pathological liar), but what he claimed is 99% certain to be a lie.

I mean, if it were his foot, WTH shoe did he put on a foot twice as big anyway? Did he have a pair of Sideshow Bob clown shoes at home just in case that ever happens?

Here is an article from 2012 in which it is a friend of Arday's who mentions the leg fracture. Why persecute Arday about it 14 years later as if it's the slightest bit relevant in the grand scheme of things.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2091124072675787114

 

[Rolfe]

(@Rolfe, you're the expert, help a bro out here one way or another.)

Sorry, not my area of expertise. You're on your own here.

 

[zooterkin]

Here is an article from 2012 in which it is a friend of Arday's who mentions the leg fracture. Why persecute Arday about it 14 years later as if it's the slightest bit relevant in the grand scheme of things.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2091124072675787114

Accurate as ever. It actually looks like it's Andy Murray who mentions the leg fracture, but he's passing on what Arday told him.

 

[LondonJohn]

Sorry, not my area of expertise. You're on your own here.

Well, I had compartment syndrome in both lower legs many years ago. It happened because my legs were elevated for 11 hours during an unexpectedly lengthy surgical operation. Even though I had a fentanyl epidural at L1, I started feeling excruciating pain an hour or so after recovery. But because of my epidural, the nurses and doctors thought it was a phantom pain. Incredibly, it took over 24 hours for the vascular team to diagnose me, and they literally ran me down to theatre - I had two ankle-to-knee knife incisions (fasciotomies) on each leg to relieve the pressure and very nearly lost my left leg. It's left me with greatly reduced mobility and flexibility in both feet, as well as constant pain.

My understanding is that the vast majority of compartment syndrome cases are due to traumatic impact - most usually in car or motorbike accidents. I'm not aware of thromboses causing it. And my cause was also vanishingly rare (one of the other reasons that my pain was dismissed so readily) - but my case has now changed procedures and protocols for lengthy surgeries across the country.

 

[angrysoba]

Someone earlier put up Spencer Matthews for comparison with Arday's claimed efforts. but there is no comparison.

Matthews completed his 30 marathons in 30 days which were organized BY a charity (and officially timed because he was going for a Guinness record) across the Jordanian desert (in 40°C heat) in roughly 4 to 5 hours each day with his final 30th marathon taking 4 hours and 17 minutes. He also has a sub 3 hour recorded time for the Toyko marathon. Matthews is an accomplished endurance athlete and long-distance runner. He holds multiple Guinness World Records for extreme long-distance running and endurance feats.

Not sure who mentioned Spencer Matthews, but the details you provide (40 degree heat!!) undercut the reasons for skepticism (endurance athlete). Arday wasn't running in that heat, or at those speeds, so his endurance achievements aren't evidence against.

 

[angrysoba]

Here is an article from 2012 in which it is a friend of Arday's who mentions the leg fracture. Why persecute Arday about it 14 years later as if it's the slightest bit relevant in the grand scheme of things.

https://twitter.com/x/status/2091124072675787114

Jeez! Andy Murray saying something years later is useless as evidence as well.

The maximalists on both sides are not sending their best!

 

[angrysoba]

Well, this WAS in fact an organized event. It was called The Global Desert Challenge - organised by a charity called Global's Make Some Noise, which supports small UK charities providing vital community services

Matthews also has a record of running marathons and long distance endurance events such as triathlobns

Oh, I see. It was in response to smartcooky's belief that you can't call it a marathon unless it is an organized race, and smartcooky even moves the goalposts by saying in this post that it must be an organized "event".

Well in that case Arday's charity run could be considered an organized event as well. Jesus ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ Christ!

 

[Vixen]

Jeez! Andy Murray saying something years later is useless as evidence as well.

The maximalists on both sides are not sending their best!

Fair enough, but surely the point is someone quoting another person is not necessarily verbatim, just what they remember that person said. If it's not particularly important, absolute accuracy about a medical diagnosis might just not be technically correct especially if self-diagnosed.

 

[angrysoba]

Fair enough,

Thank you!

but surely the point is someone quoting another person is not necessarily verbatim, just what they remember that person said. If it's not particularly important, absolute accuracy about a medical diagnosis might just not be technically correct especially if self-diagnosed.

Yes, but it wasyour source who said that people may accept he ran the marathons but reject the hairline fracture.

So it seems more like it is you who are grudgingly conceding that maybe he didn't have a hairline fracture and it is some kind of game of Chinese Whispers / Telephone that created the story.



What if he had a "tough day" but didn't get a hairline fracture?

This is why I characterize those who want to die on every single hill as maximalists.

 

[Vixen]

Thank you!

Yes, but it wasyour source who said that people may accept he ran the marathons but reject the hairline fracture.

So it seems more like it is you who are grudgingly conceding that maybe he didn't have a hairline fracture and it is some kind of game of Chinese Whispers / Telephone that created the story.

View attachment 74896

What if he had a "tough day" but didn't get a hairline fracture?

This is why I characterize those who want to die on every single hill as maximalists.

The >240 or so press articles are howling that Arday was a fabulist with numerous posters saying it's not possible Arday could (a) have done so many marathons (his running schedule from that time has now been produced as proof he did) (b) plenty of experienced runners have confirmed to the press that these levels of running are not at all unusual, (c) Arday did say some of the running was treadmill running, which was also a popular form of fundraising, (d) 'marathon' is a shorthand for the 27 or so miles as set down by Ancient Greek Olympics, (e) he did run actual road marathons (or perhaps half-marathons, also popular with fundraisers) and did indeed raise funds for Shelter, et al. (f) the quibbling about whether it was an official sponsored race per se is not reasonable as Arday never claimed to have run a competitive race. You get a time and a certificate, which is enough motive for most people, who are not exactly Kip Keino.

As for the 'fracture' claim this is likely simple confusion between shin splints and more serious injuries needing medicial attention.

Shin splints and stress fractures: What are they?​

A shin splint is one of the more common lower leg injuries in runners, treated about 3 million times each year in the United States. Stress fractures are less common, comprising between 1% to 7% of all athletic injuries.

“A shin splint is almost always an overuse problem,” Dr. Austin says. “It’s caused by inflammation where muscles of the leg meet the bone due to the repetitive stress of activities like running or jumping.” In contrast, a stress fracture is a break or crack in the bone. Stress fractures in runners are most common in the foot, ankle and lower leg.

Causes of shin splints and stress fractures​

One reason it’s difficult to tell shin splints and stress fractures apart is because they share many similar causes. Both types of injuries may occur when you:

• ramp up your exercise routine too quickly following a break
• increase the intensity of exercise too fast during a workout
• elevate your exercise regimen while preparing for a marathon or other high-impact event

Despite the insistence of W D Clinger and Lionking, this really does not prove that the then 25-year-old pre-PhD pre-professor Arday was 'a fabulist Walter Mitty' by a long chalk.

 

[Rolfe]

It wasn't a shin splint and it wasn't a stress fracture. According to him he had an epileptic fit while running which caused him to fall and inflicted the fracture.

 

[Vixen]

It wasn't a shin splint and it wasn't a stress fracture. According to him he had an epileptic fit while running which caused him to fall and inflicted the fracture.

See the X-tweet from 'Emma' who produces a witness who claims to have been there when Arday had a seizure in her office.

Likewise, this guy on Linked in (screenshot as you need to log in) said he was a witness as he was there on his bike.





As the contemporaneous logging shows of that particular run, something did happen on day 19 that curtailed him.

As for his autism diagnosis Arday says he was diagnosed with childhood global development issues aged three, and in a later interview that he was diagnosed with Aspergers.

Why wouldn't you believe him?

 

[Vixen]

The autism and epilepsy claims @monkemma on X:

 

[W.D.Clinger]

Rather than break this into separate misstatements, my responses are color-coded to the highlighting.

The >240 or so press articles are howling that Arday was a fabulist with numerous posters saying it's not possible Arday could (a) have done so many marathons (his running schedule from that time has now been produced as proof he did) (b) plenty of experienced runners have confirmed to the press that these levels of running are not at all unusual, (c) Arday did say some of the running was treadmill running, which was also a popular form of fundraising, (d) 'marathon' is a shorthand for the 27 or so miles as set down by Ancient Greek Olympics, (e) he did run actual road marathons (or perhaps half-marathons, also popular with fundraisers) and did indeed raise funds for Shelter, et al. (f) the quibbling about whether it was an official sponsored race per se is not reasonable as Arday never claimed to have run a competitive race. You get a time and a certificate, which is enough motive for most people, who are not exactly Kip Keino.

As for the 'fracture' claim this is likely simple confusion between shin splints and more serious injuries needing medicial attention.

The "levels of running" claimed by Arday are certainly unusual, and I have seen no evidence that any experienced runners would consider 30 marathons in 35 days to be remotely usual. Such a thing is possible, but extremely unusual.

The modern standard for a marathon distance is 42.195 kilometers, approximately 26.22 miles. That standard was set in 1921, based upon a precedent established by the 1908 Olympics. The very first marathon race was held in 1896, as a qualifying race for the first Olympic marathon (also in 1896), covering 40 kilometers (24.85 miles). That race (and by extension all subsequent marathon races) was inspired by the legend of a Greek messenger who was said to have run from Marathon to Athens to warn the Athenians or to announce the Greek victory at Marathon (accounts vary); by some accounts, the messenger collapsed and died immediately after delivering his message. Note that his grueling run from Marathon to Athens was not a race; it was in the mode of military communications at the time.

It seems very likely that Arday suffered one or more minor injuries, such as severe cramps or shin splints, and those minor injuries somehow got exaggerated into a hairline fracture or stress fracture. The alleged swelling of his leg to twice its normal size must have been a similar gross exaggeration (inasmuch as the claim is contradicted by photographs). As to whether those exaggerations were "likely simple confusion," I think that's going to have to remain a matter of opinion.

 

[theprestige]

Arday's thesis was investigated by the body that awarded it and he was cleared.

Given what we now know, this makes the body that awarded it look bad, rather than making him look good.

Here's a thread from r/professors where everyone agrees that Arday's awarding body is a crap school that gives its student crap outcomes:

https://www.reddit.com/r/UniUK/comments/1veinaa/can_anyone_comment_on_jason_ardays_teaching

I think their opinions are at least as authoritative as yours.