The behaviour of UK police officers.

[Mojo]

I admit it had not in fact ever occurred to me that in the UK, baseball is usually not baseball, doesn't use baseball equipment, and isn't even called baseball.

What's your point? Because rounders exists in the UK, police should assume any baseball equipment they see is the harbinger of imminent violence?

There aren't many legitimate uses for a baseball bat in central Manchester.

 

[theprestige]

There aren't many legitimate uses for a baseball bat in central Manchester.

Good thing he wasn't trying to use it, then.

I assume it's still legitimate to carry tools or sporting equipment through central Manchester, assuming you're not trying to use them for something illegitimate.

What's your point? Because rounders exists in the UK, police should assume any baseball equipment they see is the harbinger of imminent violence?

 

[bluesjnr]

To be fair...

Over on another thread, a few years ago, I posted about police shooting a man carrying a gold club... in the US.

Don't worry, we can best that.

Do a Google search for Henry (Harry) Stanley, age 46, father of three.

 

[Rolfe]

Oh, that was awful. A table leg. In a plastic carrier bag. So much for, conceal anything that might raise concerns, don't carry it openly.

And an idiot who mistook a Scottish accent for an Irish one.

 

[Nessie]

It's amazing to me that UKians on the one hand will profess fear of visiting the US because of the chances of them getting shot... While on the other hand touting the UK as a place where there's a real risk that any goddamn man on the street could flip out at any moment, and start swinging on passerby with the nearest hand tool. To the point where you might get blindsided by an actual cop, just in case.

I'm beginning to think it's the behavior of cops everywhere to overreact to whatever the biggest perceived threat is. In the US cops will assume you're armed and dangerous if you try to flee from a traffic stop. In the UK, cops will assume you're armed and dangerous if you happen to be on the same side of the street as an unsecured claw hammer.

The police all over the world have to be instant judgement calls about potential threats and of course there will be disagreement over whether the police made a good call or not. The public are exactly the same, when they report potential threats, especially when they exaggerate and misrepresent, just as you have done.

 

[Nessie]

I admit it had not in fact ever occurred to me that in the UK, baseball is usually not baseball, doesn't use baseball equipment, and isn't even called baseball.

What's your point? Because rounders exists in the UK, police should assume any baseball equipment they see is the harbinger of imminent violence?

Baseball bats in the UK are as associated with crime as they are sport, since so few people play baseball and as has been pointed out, it is more likely to be the game of rounders, which is associated with children. Youth violence in city centres is a growing problem. Put the two together and a youth with a baseball bat in a city centre will get the attention of the police.

Certain people here do not want to admit that, so they misrepresent the issues around the crime of possession of an offensive weapon, the statutory defence it supplies and reasonable suspicion.

 

[bluesjnr]

Certain people here do not want to admit that, so they misrepresent the issues around the crime of possession of an offensive weapon, the statutory defence it supplies and reasonable suspicion.

Not me. I even suggested how the officer, or any officer, could and should have approached the situation. I think you're getting mixed up with people being outraged at the piss poor approach we witnessed.

You're coming from a position that it is a weapon and seek to criminalise the individual from the outset. Myself and some others are coming from the position that there were other ways that any intent could have been ascertained than that which we saw in the video.

 

[Mojo]

To be fair...

Over on another thread, a few years ago, I posted about police shooting a man carrying a gold club... in the US.

Was it the Donald? Or would his club just have been painted gold?

 

[Darat]

Moved some posts to AAH, the topic of the thread is not each other, make your points without getting personal.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat

 

[Nessie]

Not me. I even suggested how the officer, or any officer, could and should have approached the situation. I think you're getting mixed up with people being outraged at the piss poor approach we witnessed.

You're coming from a position that it is a weapon and seek to criminalise the individual from the outset. Myself and some others are coming from the position that there were other ways that any intent could have been ascertained than that which we saw in the video.

Your opinion on how the situation could or should have been dealt with, made the assumption that the start of the incident was when the police officer took hold of the male, which is what we see at the start of the video. You were also unaware of the statutory defence, so that makes your opinion uninformed.

You then create a strawman about my position. My actual position, because of my knowledge of the statutory defence, would be to ask the male why he has a baseball bat on him in a city centre, when city centres are being plagued with young males fighting. That is not criminalising anyone, as I have started with his statutory defence, recognising he can have a lawful reasonable reason to be in possession of the bat.

It is only possible to establish a statutory defence, without an arrest, when the person cooperates. We see that male not cooperating, but we do hear him claim a defence and we do not know how cooperative he had been before the video started, or whether the police officer went straight to arrest.

 

[malbui]

Baseball is so vanishingly rare in the UK that if you ever see a baseball bat outside of a large park you assume that someone is going to get his kneecaps broken.

I once had the pleasure of seeing a Lincoln fan get arrested not far from Barnet’s old ground at Underhill. His protestations that the two baseball bats in the boot of his car were for a game later on were sadly unsupported by the presence of balls or mitts or any of the other paraphernalia necessary for a game.

 

[Nessie]

I watched this last night;

Drugs, violence and racism: A week in Glasgow city centre

A BBC investigation captures people openly dealing and taking drugs, as well as thefts, arrests, and violence.

www.bbc.co.uk

Glasgow, like many other cities, has an issue with bored, often unemployed migrants/refugees, young males, ethnic minority, who congregate in city centres. The far right sees them as a threat, which, going by the behaviour of some of those males, is justifiable, what with the open drug dealing and aggressive behaviour. That knocks on to the migrant ethnic minority males who are no trouble and work and even they get abuse. City centres have always been a magnet to the homeless, drug and alcohol abusers and young males out for a "good time", so the mix is now even more toxic.

To walk around such a place, even during the day, openly carrying something that is in the UK as associated with crime as it is sport, is an act that displays zero common sense. It is totally justifiable for the police to take action.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Two more officers arrested in Police Federation fraud investigation

Four more people, including two serving police officers, have been arrested as part of an investigation into suspected fraud and bribery at the Police Federation of England and Wales.

Two men and two women were arrested at the federation's offices in Leatherhead, Surrey, on Tuesday. The women are both in their 50s and the men in their 40s and 50s.

The City of London Police Domestic Corruption Unit said all four suspects had been taken to a police station for questioning. It comes after three arrests connected to the same case were made in March.

Police said the four people arrested on Tuesday were being questioned on suspicion of fraud by abuse of position of trust. One of the women and the man in his 50s were also being held on suspicion of bribery and fraud by failing to disclose.

It comes after the three men were arrested in March on suspicion of fraud by abuse of position - a 51-year-old from Wales, a 55-year-old from Bristol and a 46-year-old from Surrey.

Two more officers arrested in Police Federation fraud investigation

Four people, including two serving officers, were arrested at an address in Surrey, City of London Police say.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[jimbob]

Two more officers arrested in Police Federation fraud investigation

Four more people, including two serving police officers, have been arrested as part of an investigation into suspected fraud and bribery at the Police Federation of England and Wales.

Two men and two women were arrested at the federation's offices in Leatherhead, Surrey, on Tuesday. The women are both in their 50s and the men in their 40s and 50s.

The City of London Police Domestic Corruption Unit said all four suspects had been taken to a police station for questioning. It comes after three arrests connected to the same case were made in March.

Police said the four people arrested on Tuesday were being questioned on suspicion of fraud by abuse of position of trust. One of the women and the man in his 50s were also being held on suspicion of bribery and fraud by failing to disclose.

It comes after the three men were arrested in March on suspicion of fraud by abuse of position - a 51-year-old from Wales, a 55-year-old from Bristol and a 46-year-old from Surrey.

Two more officers arrested in Police Federation fraud investigation

Four people, including two serving officers, were arrested at an address in Surrey, City of London Police say.

www.bbc.co.uk

More isolated instances

 

[smartcooky]

Can you evidence that claim?

Its not a claim, its a statement of fact. On any given day, I could go walking down the road carrying bats, golf clubs etc, and never even be approached by police. Mind you, I live in a free country, with free speech, where the cops aren't out to put everyone they see on the wrong side of the law.

If the footpath was in an area, where gang violence was rampant and there had been ongoing trouble for which the police were in attendance,

If, if if. ... You're making stuff up again, creating a strawman scenario and arguing for it. The incident in question (man carrying baseball bat and arrogant, ◊◊◊◊ of a cop attacking him) did not take place "in an area, where gang violence was rampant and there had been ongoing trouble". Please stick to what actually happened, a cop came up behind a man innocently carrying a bat in a pedestrian area where the was no trouble and nothing untoward going on, grabbed him without warning and assaulted him.

Its obvious from your comments that you're an ex-cop, and you want to take this cop's side, but please stop making up fanciful scenarios to argue against, none of which bare any relation whatsoever to what actually happened. Argue THIS scenario without adding or altering things from your imagination.

What I find most disturbing about this incident is the statements made by police that man refused to engage when the officer tried to talk to him, leading to him being detained and arrested. As a general member of the public, you have no legal obligation to answer general questions or engage in a conversation with a police officer. Under the right to remain silent, you can decline to answer questions or walk away, provided you are not detained, under arrest, or operating a motor vehicle.

 

[smartcooky]

Has it occurred to you that in the UK, baseball is usually a game played by children with a small bat and a tennis ball, and called "rounders"?

Sorry, but that is wrong. Baseball IS played in England. Its a minor amateur sport (in the same way that cricket is played in the US).

The British Baseball Federation (BBF) oversees the sport alongside BaseballSoftballUK which is the national development agency. Competition includes local recreational tiers up to the elite National Baseball League (NBL).


There is a British national baseball team - they recently competed in the 2026 World Baseball Classic, finishing 15th in the rankings...

2026 World Baseball Classic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[smartcooky]

There aren't many legitimate uses for a baseball bat in central Manchester.

Irrelevant

 

[zooterkin]

Sorry, but that is wrong. Baseball IS played in England. Its a minor amateur sport (in the same way that cricket is played in the US).

The British Baseball Federation (BBF) oversees the sport alongside BaseballSoftballUK which is the national development agency. Competition includes local recreational tiers up to the elite National Baseball League (NBL).


There is a British national baseball team - they recently competed in the 2026 World Baseball Classic, finishing 15th in the rankings...

2026 World Baseball Classic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Did you miss the word 'usually'?

 

[malbui]

Sorry, but that is wrong. Baseball IS played in England. Its a minor amateur sport (in the same way that cricket is played in the US).

The British Baseball Federation (BBF) oversees the sport alongside BaseballSoftballUK which is the national development agency. Competition includes local recreational tiers up to the elite National Baseball League (NBL).


There is a British national baseball team - they recently competed in the 2026 World Baseball Classic, finishing 15th in the rankings...

2026 World Baseball Classic - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Did you look at the squad that represented GB in that tournament?

 

[bluesjnr]

Did you look at the squad that represented GB in that tournament?

In a thread highlighting the behaviour of UK police, where we're discussing the playing of baseball in England, I'm not seeing the relevance?