• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Australia's Gun Problem

Thermal said:
Their guns were locked up at the range, where they were surrounded by other guys with loaded guns in hand. They couldn't get drunk/desperate and grab one out from under the bed and start cracking off?

Plus there is a massive difference between a competitive adult marksman and a random disturbed teen.
Click to expand...
My guns were in a locked safe at home, ammunition was stored in a separate locked safe.

Some owners kept guns licked in gun safes at the range if they didn't have storage that would satisfy legal requirements.

We have had gun massacres in the UK. In 1987 Michael Ryan shot and killed sixteen people in Hungerford including his mother
before killing himself. That resulted in the bsn on all semi-automatic rifles apart from .22 rimfire blowback.
In 1996, at Dunblane Primary School in Scotland. Thomas Hamilton, killed 16 young children aged five and six and a teacher before committing suicide. That resulted in the ban on handguns.
My pistols were taken in and I was paid market value for them.
 
Last edited:
I live in a country where there is a huge amount of military issue hardware knocking around because of widespread military reserve status. At the same time ammunition is incredibly restricted.

I myself don’t have a gun. People who know how clumsy I am are agreed that that is a very good thing.
 
Trausti said:
Well . . .
Click to expand...
Well what? A nut is a nut, and one will sometimes get off the leash. There ain't much we can do about that.

But imagine if that nut could get his hands on a semi-auto. Can you imagine how many corpses would have piled up in that mall before the tactical team got there?
Trausti said:
I certainly hope that is true.
Click to expand...
I'm confident it is. I've never heard a credible anti-gunner say they wanted total/near abolition. Just keep the weapons designed to primarily be people killers out of easy corner-store reach, and regulate the hunting/sport guns to numb out the street corner trading. Not a bridge to far, I don't think.
 
arthwollipot said:
7, huh? Wow.

That's a far cry from 371.
Click to expand...
My last two years in the Nacy were shore based as an Armourer in Portsmouth. I was surrounded by hundreds of them in the workshop and armoury so 7 seems quite reasonable.

I would guess Ian at Forgotten Weapons or Othais and Mae at C&Rsenal will be pushing up there. They feature a lot of borrowed and museum guns but have substantial reference collections of their own.
 
Last edited:
Andy_Ross said:
My guns were in a locked safe at home, ammunition was stored in a separate locked safe.

Some owners kept guns licked in gun safes at the range if they didn't have storage that would satisfy legal requirements.
Click to expand...
Was that prior to the Dunblane regulations? I thought that since then, guns couldn't be stored at private residences anymore, except for shotguns and rimfire rifles on farms and pest control workers?
 
deverett said:
I'm involved in the gun business and I would not have a clue how to get a black market gun. If I walked into a pub and loudly requested a gun, the cops would be on it like a shot. Secondly how would the black marketeers get them? There are only a few ways, steal them or bring them into the country. Stealing would net you a few single shot rifles...
Click to expand...

You're involved in the gun industry and are that naive? Wow.

NZ has very strict gun laws, very, very few illegal guns (far fewer than Aussie), and yet a black market for guns still exists.

Burgaries target owners, so they're not stealing one .22, but the prime way to source guns illegally is through mules.

Find someone who needs cash and has a clean criminal record. Pay them $x to obtain a licence and buy weapons for you. Once you own them, nobody ever checks that you still have them. If they turn up being used for a crime you might get caught, but the chances are low and the gangs don't care.

The way you buy a black market gun is exactly the same as buying drugs. If you don't know where to get them, you network until you do. Particularly useful to know a drug dealer, because guns & drugs go together nicely, so start by chatting to your friendly local "P" (Kiwi slang for meth) dealer.

Thermal said:
I get your point- I've had guns most of my life and managed to never kill anyone. It's just that one in a million crackpot we all want to take the extra precautions against. With every pile of bodies at a school shooting, I get more convinced we should be doing more.
Click to expand...

I grew up, and these days live, in rural NZ.

The vast majority of farmers own a .22, a tupara (double-barrel shotgun) and a,large-calibre rifle like a 30-aught-6. I own several myself.

The whole argument is really that the anti-gun people are the Temperance Movement of a century ago: none at all, the exact opposite of 2nd Amendment people.

Like all of earth's problems right now, the far sides of the debate make all the noise. Having sensible gun laws isn't that hard, as we can see from European countries - and NZ/Oz, where guns are actually pretty easy to obtain legally but illegal usage is low.

If I go outside in the evening on a nice night there are more guns being fired than I can count. Duckshooting season opening morning is a literal barrage.
 
Thermal said:
Was that prior to the Dunblane regulations? I thought that since then, guns couldn't be stored at private residences anymore, except for shotguns and rimfire rifles on farms and pest control workers?
Click to expand...
Of course they can.
Dunblane resulted in pistols being banned, guns are still kept at home. I have friends with rifles at home. One of them is a professional deer stalker. He shoots for the forestry commission and accompanies rich people when they go stalking on an estate in Scotland. Up there his job is to make sure any deer shot at is suitable and ensure it isn't just wounded.
He has a couple of lovely rifles in 6.5 Creedmoor with Leica sights.
 
Andy_Ross said:
Of course they can.
Dunblane resulted in pistols being banned, guns are still kept at home. I have friends with rifles at home. One of them is a professional deer stalker. He shoots for the forestry commission and accompanies rich people when they go stalking on an estate in Scotland. Up there his job is to make sure any deer shot at is suitable and ensure it isn't just wounded.
He has a couple of lovely rifles in 6.5 Creedmoor with Leica sights.
Click to expand...
Maybe I'm confused- I thought that a guy living in say London couldn't keep firearms in his home but had to store them in a locked facility at an approved range?

Eta: I'm not arguing, btw. Just trying to keep the differing regulations straight.
 
Last edited:
Thermal said:
Maybe I'm confused- I thought that a guy living in say London couldn't keep firearms in his home but had to store them in a locked facility at an approved range?

Eta: I'm not arguing, btw. Just trying to keep the differing regulations straight.
Click to expand...
It depends on where you live, an apartment or shared property wouldn't get approved for security reasons.
 
The Atheist said:
Find someone who...
Click to expand...
Therein lies the problem.

theprestige said:
What do you think is wrong with legally owning 371 guns under Australia's current gun laws?
Click to expand...
If they are all licensed and kept according to the law, absolutely nothing. After all, "collecting" is considered a Valid Reason to own guns. And I'd consider collecting to be the only reason to own that many guns. But a collector has no intention of actually using the items in their collection for anything beyond the occasional test fire. That's not their reason for collecting.
 
Perhaps people on this thread do not understand that Australia has no “stand your ground” laws or the castle principle. Guns cannot be owned by civilians for self defence purposes. Anyone who shoots a burglar in their home will be prosecuted and likely jailed. People here know this, so neighbourhood disputes or car collisions are not resolved by firearms.

I’m quite happy with government wishing to restrict firearms ownership, but it’s the other controls that are more important.
 
lionking said:
Perhaps people on this thread do not understand that Australia has no “stand your ground” laws or the castle principle. Guns cannot be owned by civilians for self defence purposes. Anyone who shoots a burglar in their home will be prosecuted and likely jailed. People here know this, so neighbourhood disputes or car collisions are not resolved by firearms.

I’m quite happy with government wishing to restrict firearms ownership, but it’s the other controls that are more important.
Click to expand...
Sounds like it's time for Australians to Strayasplain their gun laws again for no reason because nobody asked because this isn't even the tenth time this has happened.
 
The Atheist said:
Ditto NZ, and if you ask for a gun licence for self-defence you'll very likely be answering some awkward questions about why you feel threatened.
Click to expand...
Why would there be awkward questions? It is very rare that anyone in NZ is ever threatened (documented by police reports) and feels they could benefit from having a firearm for protection?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom