“Fossil fuel corporations like ExxonMobil and Suncor can read the writing on the wall; that’s why they are appealing to the Supreme Court while pressuring Congress and state legislatures to gift them get-out-of-jail-free cards. Companies don’t spend huge sums to coordinate lobbying and other efforts at multiple levels and across all branches of government when they have nothing to hide. Having proven they can’t be trusted to operate above board, they want to exist above the law. Meanwhile, people are forced to experience increasingly damaging fossil fuel-driven climate change.”
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Cont: Global warming discussion V
- Thread starter lobosrul5
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“Fossil fuel corporations like ExxonMobil and Suncor can read the writing on the wall; that’s why they are appealing to the Supreme Court while pressuring Congress and state legislatures to gift them get-out-of-jail-free cards. Companies don’t spend huge sums to coordinate lobbying and other efforts at multiple levels and across all branches of government when they have nothing to hide. Having proven they can’t be trusted to operate above board, they want to exist above the law. Meanwhile, people are forced to experience increasingly damaging fossil fuel-driven climate change.”
Yes, they did. That's what a scenario is, a made up possible state of affairs. As to whether they actually nuked it? Yes, they postponed this for 50 years, because, why not? People have been seeing and discussing the effects of global warning for decades. There's been no great revelation, nothing new. Here, from 10 years ago.
If Germans are happy paying top dollar for their electricity then I'm happy Germans are paying top dollar for their electricity.
Receipts posted in post #2517. I'll take my real journalism source over your AIslop any day.
China Is Now Cooling Cities Without AC - Engineers Are Calling It Impossible (China Tech, July 23, 2026 – 12:17)
Interesting video about alternative ways to get rid of excessive heat in cities, for instance misting and 'sun screens' for buildings.
This is the first time I hear about Solarpunk. It looks interesting. Like the Chinese video above, it's also about sustainable urban planning:
Interesting video about alternative ways to get rid of excessive heat in cities, for instance misting and 'sun screens' for buildings.
This is the first time I hear about Solarpunk. It looks interesting. Like the Chinese video above, it's also about sustainable urban planning:
I know eh? Maybe my source (Euronews) and your source (Eurostat) can meet in a back alley and settle this issue in a giant free-for-all Eurorumble. But I'll concede, the second most expensive electricity in Europe. The renewables still aren't delivering on the affordability...yet.
So what else do we have? A Chinese propaganda video. Ooooo an underground water based cooling plant! Big whoop, Canada beat them to it, decades ago. Suck it up China.
Yes, the renewables actually are "delivering on the affordability," but don't take my word for it! Look at the sources I gave you, and not just the one of them, i.e. Eurostat, but that one, too: posts 2,521 and 2,560.
There's a reason why electric power would be much more expensive in Germany South than in Germany North!
The reason is that they have the renewables in the north (and access to wind & solar power from Scandinavia) and are mainly fossil-fuel based in the south. However, since energy prices are balanced in Germany so people pay the same all over the country, prices are artificially raised in the north and lowered in the south, i.e. the northern states don't really get to take full advantage of their cheap wind & solar energy because they have to subsidize the underdeveloped (= fossil-fuel based) energy production in the south where energy prices would be even higher if prices weren't equalized.
And this also means that the incentive to switch to renewables is lowered, unfortunately. Fortunately, it's still there.
Guess who's probably bribing politicians to keep that stupid system in place!
But let's keep going! You appear to be unable to take in more than one source at the time, and not even that, actually, because if you just took a closer look at my link to Eurostat, you would have seen this:
There's a reason why electric power would be much more expensive in Germany South than in Germany North!
The reason is that they have the renewables in the north (and access to wind & solar power from Scandinavia) and are mainly fossil-fuel based in the south. However, since energy prices are balanced in Germany so people pay the same all over the country, prices are artificially raised in the north and lowered in the south, i.e. the northern states don't really get to take full advantage of their cheap wind & solar energy because they have to subsidize the underdeveloped (= fossil-fuel based) energy production in the south where energy prices would be even higher if prices weren't equalized.
And this also means that the incentive to switch to renewables is lowered, unfortunately. Fortunately, it's still there.
Guess who's probably bribing politicians to keep that stupid system in place!
But let's keep going! You appear to be unable to take in more than one source at the time, and not even that, actually, because if you just took a closer look at my link to Eurostat, you would have seen this:
In fact, every time you pretend that you don't understand what I have presented you with, it gives me another opportunity to make it extremely clear to you and everybody else, so you can just keep going and it will make you look increasingly dense every time.Compare's energy prices without taxes with
.
Notice also's) position in this chart (same link):
Change in electricity prices for household consumers compared with previous year, same semester, (National currency), second half 2025 (%) (Eurostat)
No doubt mainly due to renewables, wind in particular.
In several posts and with glee, Stout has recently been telling us about coal in China, you know, the stuff that's neither beautiful nor clean.
It turns out this story is much more complicated than I suspected, as this looong video will help you understand:
The headline is more than a little misleading. 'China quietly saved the world economy last month' would have been more to the point, and I'm not even sure that's true or a good thing.
It turns out this story is much more complicated than I suspected, as this looong video will help you understand:
The headline is more than a little misleading. 'China quietly saved the world economy last month' would have been more to the point, and I'm not even sure that's true or a good thing.
Roger Ramjets
Philosopher
Indeed. No competent analyst thought the Iran oil shock was going to end the world. I noticed this video a while ago and didn't bother watching it because the title is silly. China saved itself, which was totally expected, and this relieved some pressure on the global oil market. Demand destruction is totally normal in this situation, the 'invisible hand' of the market doing its thing.
OK now, so it's briefcases of cash sliding under tables in Exclusive southern German men's clubs that are responsible for high prices. Those dastardly swine without their nefarious meddling, Germans would be paying the same as Hungarians. Got it. Whew.
So China kept massive reserves due to the whole Malacca Straight issue and built a bunch of coal plants "just in case" and continues to buy sanctioned Russian oil (so Russia has more money for weapons to blow up Ukrainian babies) and they "saved the world". I'm thinking that content creator just got a nice fat cheque from the CCP.
Really, it's not that complicated.
So China kept massive reserves due to the whole Malacca Straight issue and built a bunch of coal plants "just in case" and continues to buy sanctioned Russian oil (so Russia has more money for weapons to blow up Ukrainian babies) and they "saved the world". I'm thinking that content creator just got a nice fat cheque from the CCP.
Really, it's not that complicated.
What makes the video interesting is the connection between coal and oil. You should watch it for that reason alone.
I don't know what you mean with "China saved itself". Instead of hoarding the oil and watch as prices went up, up, up, China more or less dumped it on the market.
I'm not sure what the intention was or what exactly it accomplished.
And in the meantime, China is expanding wind & sun in unprecedented scale, which may also be a way for China to 'save itself.' but it sure as hell is a better way to do so than what is happening in the USA and Canada where the whole point of energy policies seems to be to save the fossil-fuel industry from scaling down its extraction of CO2-emitting sources of energy.
'If I don't have any facts or arguments, at least I can still resort to my usual hyperbolic strawman tactics. Whew!
No, it's never complicated. You can always post whatever you can imagine. There's no reason to reference reality.
And it can always serve to distract from your embarrassing lies about renewables being the reason why German electricity prices are high when the exact opposite is the cause.
"Probably bribing politicians" was your claim, not mine. Sometimes you just have to work with what you got. Strawman claim dismissed.
You see, this is where you have it all bass ackwards and upside down (sometimes referred to as Commie Brain). Renewables aren't the reason Germans are paying high electricity prices...renewables have failed to lower German electricity prices.
Strawman claim upheld!
My claim (with receipts) is that electricity prices in Germany are leveled out with electricity prices in the south being made cheaper and electricity prices in the north being made more expensive because the north is where they have access to renewable sources of energy (mainly wind) and the south is where they haven't. That's a fact – see posts 2,521 and 2,560, for the third time – which Stout refuses to acknowledge because that's Stout's MO.
That this system is maintained by means of bribes to politicians from the fossil-fuel companies in the fossil-fuel dominated, radical right-wing south is what I surmise, i.e. not a fact but based on a striking fact as mentioned in posts 2,521 and 2,560, for the fourth time, the fact that Germany's current Federal Minister for Economic Affairs and Energy comes from the energy industry. If Stout can think of another reason, he is welcome to post about it, but the reason why energy prices in Germany are higher than in most of the rest of Europe is certainly not its access to renewables. On the contrary. See posts 2,521 and 2,560, for the fifth time.
As always, Stout just doubles down on a claim that I debunked a week ago and again three days ago: See posts 2,521 and 2,560 for the sixth time! The latter has a link to a webpage with a chart of energy prices in Europe, Electricity prices for household consumers second half 2025 (€ per kWh) with and without taxes and VAT. It makes it clear that not only are Germany's electricity prices lower than Ireland's; the prices without taxes and VAT are considerably lower. As mentioned before, it also shows that electricity prices without taxes and VAT in renewable-energy-intensive Denmark are about half of what they are in Ireland.
They would probably be even lower if the electricity grid in Germany didn't limit the amount of electricity that can be sent to southern states, and so would the electricity prices in Germany in general. Smilar grid problems exists in the USA. It was made apparent when Ted Cruz fled from a winter storm in Texas to Cancun. At the time, right-wing Texas governor Greg Abbott tried to blame that one on renewables, which turned out to be another bloody lie:
My claim (with receipts) is that electricity prices in Germany are leveled out with electricity prices in the south being made cheaper and electricity prices in the north being made more expensive because the north is where they have access to renewable sources of energy (mainly wind) and the south is where they haven't. That's a fact – see posts 2,521 and 2,560, for the third time – which Stout refuses to acknowledge because that's Stout's MO.
That this system is maintained by means of bribes to politicians from the fossil-fuel companies in the fossil-fuel dominated, radical right-wing south is what I surmise, i.e. not a fact but based on a striking fact as mentioned in posts 2,521 and 2,560, for the fourth time, the fact that Germany's current Federal Minister for Economic Affairs and Energy comes from the energy industry. If Stout can think of another reason, he is welcome to post about it, but the reason why energy prices in Germany are higher than in most of the rest of Europe is certainly not its access to renewables. On the contrary. See posts 2,521 and 2,560, for the fifth time.
As always, Stout just doubles down on a claim that I debunked a week ago and again three days ago: See posts 2,521 and 2,560 for the sixth time! The latter has a link to a webpage with a chart of energy prices in Europe, Electricity prices for household consumers second half 2025 (€ per kWh) with and without taxes and VAT. It makes it clear that not only are Germany's electricity prices lower than Ireland's; the prices without taxes and VAT are considerably lower. As mentioned before, it also shows that electricity prices without taxes and VAT in renewable-energy-intensive Denmark are about half of what they are in Ireland.
They would probably be even lower if the electricity grid in Germany didn't limit the amount of electricity that can be sent to southern states, and so would the electricity prices in Germany in general. Smilar grid problems exists in the USA. It was made apparent when Ted Cruz fled from a winter storm in Texas to Cancun. At the time, right-wing Texas governor Greg Abbott tried to blame that one on renewables, which turned out to be another bloody lie:
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Lukraak_Sisser
Philosopher
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2009
- Messages
- 6,404
Yeah, at least US taxes are being used to right way to deal with renewable energy methods
www.bbc.com
Trump administration to pay German firm to halt US wind projects
The RWE payout is the latest in a string of deals cancelling wind energy projects, a power source long derided by Trump.
www.bbc.com
Yes, but Stout will find a way argue that paying German firms to halt wind projects will make electricity cheaper, you know, along with gasoline, diesel, ground beef and probably also eggs. Any day now.
I don't know if anybody promised that German electricity bills would be reduced, but they would have been if it weren't for the conservative southern Bundesstaaten who are unwilling to make the shift to renewables. Stout understands it by now but can't acknowledge it (much like Trump with the Reflecting Pool), and everybody else who's been following this thread has known it since last week.
It's almost as if Clutch Cargo had reincarnated.
I'm surprised that courses like this at the University of Pennsylvania are still allowed:
Michael E. Mann on X, Aug 7, 2026
Hey @Penn undergraduates. Not too late to sign up for my course "Global Climate Change" this fall!
More info here: https://earth.sas.upenn.edu/node/6205
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
There's all kinds of other factors at play here that are increasing energy costs.
Germany should reactivate the nuclear power, though.