Apollo 11 Moon Landing Revisited: Hoax ~vs~ Debunk

[catsmate]

Allen claims there are at least seven Russian astronauts floating about Space but which has never been publicised

Like his other claims, this is a lie.

 

[catsmate]

From the blurb Ayrey is revelling in the fact it was made in Delaware ('What did... <fx deep voice: "Don't go, there!">. These local history stories are nice for the enthusiast. Good on Ayrey.

Nonsensical rubbish.

 

[Andy_Ross]

I'm not a CT-er. Wanting to know what happened to the MV Estonia is normal AFAIAC. As for Apollo11, I was reading t'other day about the Soviet guy Leoniv [_sp?] iirc who did the first Space walk (which was in LEO). He said his spacesuit immediately went as stiff as a board and he had trouble getting back in. So, along comes our intrepid Buzz Aldrin, determined to do the same, and sure enough, he adds a little 'Hollywood' drama. Thing is, if space walking - in LEO - is so deleterious to life and limb (and to spacesuits) one can't help wanting to understand how frolicking about on the Moon was a piece of cake.

Enquiring minds need to know. It's hilarious how people are actually frightened of abstract argument.

You think the Russian suit and the Apollo suit were the same?

 

[Axxman300]

Two things can be true at the same time: USSR cutting corners and cheating like hell - Allen claims there are at least seven Russian astronauts floating about Space but which has never been publicised - the Space Race epitomises the reckless behaviour of two super powers desperate to demonstrate sovereignty over the other.

Allen is a friggin' liar. We put as much effort into spying on the Soviet space program as they did spying on our space program. If there are Soviets lost in space, we'd know about it, and we'd have politely trolled the Russians by offering help and or condolences. Space flight is dangerous. It's not so much that the Soviets cut corners as it is they've never put much stock in human life (see their tank auto-loaders, any of their submarines, and the war in Ukraine).

 

[Andy_Ross]

. The eventual result of this, as far as space suits are concerned, was the legendary Orlan space suit, the most reliable and longest-serving space suit in spaceflight history.

 

[Andy_Ross]

From the blurb Ayrey is revelling in the fact it was made in Delaware ('What did... <fx deep voice: "Don't go, there!">. These local history stories are nice for the enthusiast. Good on Ayrey.

pathetic

 

[Andy_Ross]

Apollo suits

A7L suit without outer-layer and visor assembly
used on the Apollo 7–14 lunar missions


Apollo 11 EMU worn by Buzz Aldrin on lunar surface


Revised A7LB worn on the last three Apollo lunar flights Apollos 15, 16, and 17, without outer-layer and visor assembly.


Apollo 17 A7LB space suit worn by Gene Cernan on lunar surface

 

[Axxman300]

don't remember watching any of the other missions, though I do remember my mother's telling us that the Apollo 13 astronauts were in serious trouble, and then later that they'd returned safely.

I watched all the Apollo missions start to finish. But Apollo 13 was a big deal because my kindergarten class was ushered down the hallway to a room where we got to watch the splashdown, and it was on a COLOR TV. That was a big deal for most of us in the room. We kept marveling how blue the ocean was, which was silly because we can see the Pacific from our playground. I didn't miss a launch until maybe the third shuttle mission. I even made it home from junior high in time to watch the first glide test of the Enterprise down at Edwards. I was hardcore NASA back then.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Allen is a friggin' liar. We put as much effort into spying on the Soviet space program as they did spying on our space program. If there are Soviets lost in space, we'd know about it, and we'd have politely trolled the Russians by offering help and or condolences. Space flight is dangerous. It's not so much that the Soviets cut corners as it is they've never put much stock in human life (see their tank auto-loaders, any of their submarines, and the war in Ukraine).

Besides which, wouldn't something the size of a human body in orbit be tracked?

 

[Foster Zygote]

I'm not a CT-er.

But you are. You choose some subject that you know little to nothing about, that others who know no more than you have declared is surrounded by some "controversy". You test the waters with something to the effect that you're not agreeing with the conspiracy theorists, "but isn't 'X' funny?". Soon you're fully supporting the conspiracy narrative, with occasional protests that you're "just asking questions" despite only entertaining questions that you feel are supportive of the conspiracy narrative, while throwing bucket loads of wrong ideas that expose your gross ignorance of science and engineering at the wall in the hope that something will stick, and pointedly ignoring or deflecting all responses that highlight your lack of even basic knowledge of the subjects at hand. And all this is clothed in the implication that you are just trying to share your intellectual achievements with those who haven't been able to climb as high as you have, despite having been made aware that some of those you're attempting to "educate" have actual Ph.D.s in the relevant fields, while you constantly make basic errors about things taught to beginning students.

You frequently retreat to add more to your bucket, stopping when you think you have something new that will stick this time for sure, only to find that not reading past the point where you thought you had a stumper means you didn't learn why it doesn't actually mean what you thought it meant, like with Alexei Leonov's EVA, and the differences that led to that problem and the lessons that were learned from it.

And you constantly characterize counter arguments presenting facts that demonstrate the ridiculousness of your pet CT as personal attacks, or as irrelevant, even as you paint yourself as a victim of bullying with unwarranted accusations of misogyny while simultaneously engaging in the construction of straw men based on bigoted assumptions about nationality.

Wanting to know what happened to the MV Estonia is normal AFAIAC. As for Apollo11, I was reading t'other day about the Soviet guy Leoniv [_sp?] iirc who did the first Space walk (which was in LEO). He said his spacesuit immediately went as stiff as a board and he had trouble getting back in. So, along comes our intrepid Buzz Aldrin, determined to do the same, and sure enough, he adds a little 'Hollywood' drama. Thing is, if space walking - in LEO - is so deleterious to life and limb (and to spacesuits) one can't help wanting to understand how frolicking about on the Moon was a piece of cake.

This has already been more than adequately explained by Jay. (It's too bad you'll most likely never acknowledged that he actually does that sort of work for a living, and that your thoughts on the subject are in no way just as valid as his.) But I'm still curious to know why you think the difficulties encountered with Leonov's hastily designed suit must apply to all subsequent EVAs.

Here's what's under the Beta cloth outer garment of an Apollo A7L:

Notice how the joints are designed to bend without expanding? It's almost like engineers actually know what they're doing.

Enquiring minds need to know. It's hilarious how people are actually frightened of abstract argument.

Trust me, no one is frightened by your arguments. (Electrolysis produces water, an object in 1/6g is just as "arduous" to carry as in 1g, radiation exposure makes you radioactive, etcetera...) And you've made it clear that the only enquiries you're willing to entertain are ones that you can bend to the conclusion that you are intellectually superior to everyone too complacent and dim to discern the big truth that you have uncovered with your astonishing cognitive skills, even if it turns out that this includes the practitioners of entire fields of science and engineering, worldwide, for over half a century.

 

[jimbob]

Tone down the personal bickering

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jimbob

 

[Axxman300]

Besides which, wouldn't something the size of a human body in orbit be tracked?

Yes, I think NORAD still tracks a glove that floated out of a Gemini capsule.

 

[Vixen]

You also find it weird that Apollo beamed TV signals back to the earth without a satellite. And that one actually happened.

Stop telling lies. The point being made was to do with geopositioning, but I am guessing that went right over head. Likewise, you lied about my being a Bolin or Björkman follower. That's like saying a historian or sociologist who took the trouble to read Mein Kampf must be Third Reich supporters. When actually the conclusion is that Hitler was stark raving mad. You don't understand that you have no power to dictate what I should think or read. You are lying because you were told by me, at the time, that, having read some of Bolin (yes, I am free to do whatever I like without your pompous permission) I informed the reader I considered him to be a disinformation agent, as there is very little background on him, other than his supposedly having studied the Middle East (which in itself doesn't tell you what side he's on, so you were being deliberately dishonest - probably to present yourself as being a patronising put-down merchant of moi-meme - when you claimed he was a favoured source of mine). Likewise, Björkmän has all kinds of theories and presents as far right (? ). In addition, his opinion on Estonia doesn't coincide with mine, so once again you lied in your attempt to paint me as an imbecile. It is quite common for governments to adopt disinformation agents, for example, Sweden's is an official 'psychological' Ministry to try to get people to believe the 'right' things. Likewise, one could say NASA's 'debunking' campaign is similar to Sweden's (re MV Estonia). It could be said the Flat Earthers are a disinformation group claiming Apollo was a 'hoax' so people associate Apollo sceptics as flat earth nutters and CT-ers.

So, in effect, you show a profound inability to grasp that "reading other people's abstract ideas means 'you must believe whatever they say'" is absolute rubbish. You can't ban people from reading and discussing abstract ideas. If you are afraid of abstract principles that's a problem that lies with you. I will say one thing, Bolin seemed to know his stuff - from what I read - about the Middle East and 9/11 which did give me food for thought. Now back away in horror! People actually delving into issues to get to the root of it. It really doesn't make you my manager, dictating what I can or can't read or want to discuss, although I appreciate you are only grandstanding to an imaginary audience in which you are the imaginary master of what is true.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Allen claims there are at least seven Russian astronauts floating about Space but which has never been publicised...

Care to guess which orifice Allen pulled that from?

Here's a hint:
_*

I'm glad you acknowledge politics came into it re Brezhnev and his glasnost.

That was Gorbachev.

 

[wollery]

Stop telling lies. The point being made was to do with geopositioning, but I am guessing that went right over head.

What point were you trying to make about "geopositioning"?

Be specific.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

Brezhnev and glasnost?

Oh, for ◊◊◊◊'s sake!

Tell me how Leonid got on with perestroika as well? That should be fun...

Don't forget when he implemented rasputitsa, as well.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Ya and some of us, at least in hindsight, cheer both Sputnik and Apollo as some of mankind's most amazing achievements.

Indeed. And the U.S. astronauts were among the Cosmonauts' biggest fans. I forget which astronauts were being interviewed, but the interviewer made some snide comment about Gagarin's achievements, and they set him straight. People like Gagarin, Leonov etcetera were regarded with great respect by the U.S. astronauts, and vice versa.

 

[Vixen]

What point were you trying to make about "geopositioning"?

Be specific.

Read back to threadworm on this topic who reproduced several videos of what Allen and Weaver were trying to say about the near impossibility ATT to get a stationary image.

 

[JayUtah]

Stop telling lies. The point being made was to do with geopositioning, but I am guessing that went right over head.

Perhaps. As usual, your grasp of the subject is so poor that you can’t make a cogent argument about it. Being so very uninformed that your critics can’t make head or tail out of what you’re trying to say is not a flex.

You’re not arguing “abstract ideas.” You argue specific details that you clearly don’t understand.

 

[threadworm]

Read back to threadworm on this topic who reproduced several videos of what Allen and Weaver were trying to say about the near impossibility ATT to get a stationary image.

And read back my pointing out to you that they lied. There was no footage of from lunar orbit in a stationary position.