Apollo 11 Moon Landing Revisited: Hoax ~vs~ Debunk

[SpitfireIX]

I was four years old. My mother says I watched with her and my dad, but I don't remember it. I remember a lot of things from that time, though, such as the birth of my youngest brother a few months earlier, so I wonder whether she misremembered.

I don't remember watching any of the other missions, though I do remember my mother's telling us that the Apollo 13 astronauts were in serious trouble, and then later that they'd returned safely. I also remember several news segments about various aspects of the mission, such as how the astronauts brushed their teeth, how the Lunar Rover worked, etc.

The first missions I somewhat remember are the Skylab missions, although I don't remember watching any actual launches or mission video. But I remember news broadcasts about the missions, especially the first one, where the crew had to perform repairs due to damage incurred by Skylab during launch.

The first actual launches I remember are from the Apollo-Soyuz mission. I particularly remember that the news anchor mentioned that the Soviets normally didn't allow broadcasts of their launches, but that they were making an exception in that case.

 

[Mojo]

Edited by jimbob: 

quote of subsequently moderated post removed

This is why later space suits were designed so that, as far as possible, the volume didn't change when the arm and legs were bent.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

I'm not a CT-er. Wanting to know what happened to the MV Estonia is normal AFAIAC.

Your behavior makes clear that you don't actually want to know what happened to the MV Estonia unless it's an exciting conspiracy theory that you can be the smartest person in the room about. When the reinvestigation concluded that the boring mainstream findings that other people understand better than you were largely correct, you were disappointed and upset. You cherry-picked conspiracy theorists as your sources of information: Jutta Raabe, Anders Bjorkman, Christopher Bollyn, Drew Wilson. And you routinely dismiss information from other sources. Not a good recipe for finding out what actually happened.

It's telling that, at this point, I probably know more about what happened to the Estonia than you do, despite that never having been a hobby of mine. I know how many people Ken Svensson rescued. I know how the EPIRBs worked. I know what the Atlantic lock was for.

As for Apollo11, I was reading t'other day about the Soviet guy Leoniv [_sp?] iirc who did the first Space walk (which was in LEO). He said his spacesuit immediately went as stiff as a board and he had trouble getting back in. So, along comes our intrepid Buzz Aldrin, determined to do the same, and sure enough, he adds a little 'Hollywood' drama. Thing is, if space walking - in LEO - is so deleterious to life and limb (and to spacesuits) one can't help wanting to understand how frolicking about on the Moon was a piece of cake.

It's almost like they learned from experience and made improvements to both the equipment and their spacewalking and training techniques. And if you actually wanted to learn about those things -about such things as constant volume joints and how NASA and its contractors developed the A7L suits, or about how NASA introduced underwater training to prepare astronauts for EVAs- then it would not be hard for you to have done so. But your preferred CT sources don't tell you these things, so you go with incredulity and mockery instead.

Enquiring minds need to know. It's hilarious how people are actually frightened of abstract argument.

Your interlocutors are not frightened. They are exasperated and annoyed.

The answers you seek are not abstractions; they are historically documented facts. Engaging with them abstractly is not the behavior of someone who genuinely wishes to learn what happened. Rather, it is what people do when they haven't done their homework but want to sound smart anyway.

I know this because I...
<<
>>
...have a really good friend who used to do stuff like that in school when he hadn't actually done his assignment.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

This is why later space suits were designed so that, as far as possible, the volume didn't change when that arm and legs were bent.

Don't get sciency, to argue from ignorance that much it must be gently nurtured with the care one would lavish on a prize orchid and facts would poison the soil.

 

[bknight]

I'm not a CT-er. Wanting to know what happened to the MV Estonia is normal AFAIAC. As for Apollo11, I was reading t'other day about the Soviet guy Leoniv [_sp?] iirc who did the first Space walk (which was in LEO). He said his spacesuit immediately went as stiff as a board and he had trouble getting back in. So, along comes our intrepid Buzz Aldrin, determined to do the same, and sure enough, he adds a little 'Hollywood' drama. Thing is, if space walking - in LEO - is so deleterious to life and limb (and to spacesuits) one can't help wanting to understand how frolicking about on the Moon was a piece of cake.

Enquiring minds need to know. It's hilarious how people are actually frightened of abstract argument.

Yes Alexie Leonov had trouble getting back into the tunnel in his spacecraft, but Aldrin also did a spacewalk during Gemini 12 no trouble getting back into his capsule. The pressure of 5.9 psi in Alexei's suit versus 3.5 psi in Aldrin's, makes a lot of difference in the suit ballooning, but you would have known that if you bothered to look it up. The A-7 suits were also operated at 3.5 psi. on the Moon.
So, yes you are a CTer.

 

[Vixen]

Your behavior makes clear that you don't actually want to know what happened to the MV Estonia unless it's an exciting conspiracy theory that you can be the smartest person in the room about. When the reinvestigation concluded that the boring mainstream findings that other people understand better than you were largely correct, you were disappointed and upset. You cherry-picked conspiracy theorists as your sources of information: Jutta Raabe, Anders Bjorkman, Christopher Bollyn, Drew Wilson. And you routinely dismiss information from other sources. Not a good recipe for finding out what actually happened.

It's telling that, at this point, I probably know more about what happened to the Estonia than you do, despite that never having been a hobby of mine. I know how many people Ken Svensson rescued. I know how the EPIRBs worked. I know what the Atlantic lock was for.



It's almost like they learned from experience and made improvements to both the equipment and their spacewalking and training techniques. And if you actually wanted to learn about those things -about such things as constant volume joints and how NASA and its contractors developed the A7L suits, or about how NASA introduced underwater training to prepare astronauts for EVAs- then it would not be hard for you to have done so. But your preferred CT sources don't tell you these things, so you go with incredulity and mockery instead.



Your interlocutors are not frightened. They are exasperated and annoyed.

The answers you seek are not abstractions; they are historically documented facts. Engaging with them abstractly is not the behavior of someone who genuinely wishes to learn what happened. Rather, it is what people do when they haven't done their homework but want to sound smart anyway.

I know this because I...

...have a really good friend who used to do stuff like that in school when he hadn't actually done his h

This is the saddest thing of all: people who can't grasp abstract ideas so they focus on sundry people and personalities instead of the thing being debated.

 

[JayUtah]

An important thing to remember about the early Soviet space program is that it focused on breaking records even if it had to cut corners to do so. Khrushchev was adamant about showing the world how advanced the Soviet space program was appeared. Leonov's spacewalk was rushed into being because it was well understood that the Gemini program was likely going to attempt a spacewalk in early to mid 1965. The near-fatal disaster of Leonov's hurriedly improvised spacewalk made Brezhnev step in and mandate safer missions.

 

[Reformed Offlian]

This is the saddest thing of all: people who can't grasp abstract ideas so they focus on sundry people and personalities instead of the thing being debated.

Are you sure you're replying to the right post? Because this addresses exactly none of what I said.

 

[JayUtah]

This is the saddest thing of all: people who can't grasp abstract ideas so they focus on sundry people and personalities instead of the thing being debated.

...says the person who has ignored all the detailed answers to her question today in order to throw personal shade on her critics.

 

[Darat]

This is the saddest thing of all: people who can't grasp abstract ideas so they focus on sundry people and personalities instead of the thing being debated.

 

[Vixen]

Are you sure you're replying to the right post? Because this addresses exactly none of what I said.

I find it really weird that you are trying to position yourself as my 'manager'.

 

[JayUtah]

This is why later space suits were designed so that, as far as possible, the volume didn't change when the arm and legs were bent.

The space suit design that Leonov used was completely scrapped. As I wrote above, Leonov's near-fatal mission caused Brezhnev to turn his predecessor's reckless policy around 180º. Rather than rush half-baked ideas into production, the Soviets started doing very rigorous review and testing at the expense of breaking records. The eventual result of this, as far as space suits are concerned, was the legendary Orlan space suit, the most reliable and longest-serving space suit in spaceflight history.

 

[JayUtah]

I find it really weird that you are trying to position yourself as my 'manager'.

It's really weird that you won't address any of the answers to your question while you yourself are trying to posture yourself as as the thread's monitor. You seem to have a lot to say about your critics and almost nothing to say about space suits.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

... As for Apollo11, I was reading t'other day about the Soviet guy Leoniv [_sp?] iirc who did the first Space walk (which was in LEO). He said his spacesuit immediately went as stiff as a board and he had trouble getting back in. So, along comes our intrepid Buzz Aldrin, determined to do the same, and sure enough, he adds a little 'Hollywood' drama. Thing is, if space walking - in LEO - is so deleterious to life and limb (and to spacesuits) one can't help wanting to understand how frolicking about on the Moon was a piece of cake.

It's encouraging that you want to understand. How much have you managed to discover so far?

 

[Reformed Offlian]

I find it really weird that you are trying to position yourself as my 'manager'.

You also find it weird that Apollo beamed TV signals back to the earth without a satellite. And that one actually happened.

 

[Carrot Flower King]

Still insisting that there is a "debate"...Still trying to claim some class of moral high ground...Oh dear...

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Are you sure you're replying to the right post? Because this addresses exactly none of what I said.

I find it really weird that you are trying to position yourself as my 'manager'.

Hmm. Is that the kind of thing managers used to say to you?

 

[Reformed Offlian]

Yes, and from that we learned how to build space suits so that they can bend. As you can imagine, I can probably deliver an impromptu lecture on how do it, because it's my job.

Oh, please no! Not another impromptu JayUtah lecture about technical space stuff!

 

[JayUtah]

Lather, rinse, repeat: behave badly, then blame everyone for responding predictably to the bad behavior. Maybe we'll get to 400 pages before the end of the weekend, almost none of it having to do with how space suits bend in a vacuum.

 

[JayUtah]

Oh, please no! Not another impromptu JayUtah lecture about technical space stuff!

Here's the newly published standard work on the subject.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0813066573?lv=shuf&channelId=500&plpRedirect=mhFallback