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Zohran Mamdani

Also stock dividends aren't overhead at all, so I don't know what Susheel was thinking there.
Because Jack Welch convinced the mushbrain from Iran-Contra that the concept of "fiduciary responsibility" means "the quarterly whims of the stock holders are your first and only concern". And said mushbrain's handlers puppetted him on TV to sell that to the rest of us.
That might seem like an obvious money saving solution to you and me, but I guarantee you there's going to be a marketing push anyway.
Ya, but I don't think they'll be buying naming rights at CitiField just yet.
There would pretty much have to be, simply because you can't trust those outlets (or even the NYT) to accurately represent what's going on, both to the intended customers and to the taxpayers who are funding the new program.
Obviously, since so many are still on the "AHHH SOCIALISM!" fear mongering the Epstein class that owns them is ordering them to do
Only an idiot would let Fox News control the narrative, just because it's cheaper.
I'd say this narrative is getting away from them.

Also, it was a joke. Yes, they will spend some money on marketing, but they likely won't need the campaigns major companies do.
 
I do love that the picture illustrating the initial article is obviously taken at some for-profit grocer.
It's a prop, just a small part of this larger vanity project. 5 stores in a city with a population of 8.5 Million? Once the restaurant, bodega owners and shoplifters have had their way with these stores there'll be precious little left over for the working poor to save a few bucks on.

5 stores, taking years to open, is just milking the idea for asspats. Don't be feeble about it, take over the whole city wide industry.
 
Given that major grocers like Kroger typically operate on 2-3% profit margin, it is hard to see how Mamdani can offer 30% off without operating at a loss.
There are no shareholders they need to pay dividends to.
Umm... dividends would normally be taken out of the profit margin. So even with no shareholders the most you could save is 2-3%.
They don't need to take out advertisements.
They may not 'need' to take out ads, but they probably will. (After all, some notification to the community at large will be needed.)

Another thing to consider: what will be the labor costs? Here in Canuckistan, people working for "the government" usually receive higher pay (and more benefits) than in the private sector. If these stores similarly have higher costs due to labor, then any savings they may have from "lack of shareholders/no ads" would disappear.
PitPat said:
If this is successful it's going make the right, and some Dems, furious. Seems like a high bar to sustain.
I guess the question is going to be "how do you define successful".

If the store is a huge money loss for the city, and the stores are empty of customers, its possible that even a Mamdani cult member here might admit it was a failure. If it gives cheaper prices, is popular but still operates at a loss? Some might think that is a "success", but its not as clear cut.

The one thing that "government owned" stores could do is to take care of the problem of "food deserts". (These are areas of a city where the average citizen is not geographically close to a grocery store, and is forced to do much of their shopping at places like convenience stores, where access to fresh produce is limited.) But, I do not know where these stores are being built or if they would have a role in addressing the food desert problem.
 
Umm... dividends would normally be taken out of the profit margin. So even with no shareholders the most you could save is 2-3%.

Oh, well then ◊◊◊◊ it, right? Why bother even trying if we can't save more than 2-3% for people struggling, amiright?
They may not 'need' to take out ads, but they probably will. (After all, some notification to the community at large will be needed.)

News coverage on local stations will probably suffice. Look around, look at yourself, people can't stop talking about him and what he's doing. It's not tough to get the word out.
Another thing to consider: what will be the labor costs? Here in Canuckistan, people working for "the government" usually receive higher pay (and more benefits) than in the private sector. If these stores similarly have higher costs due to labor, then any savings they may have from "lack of shareholders/no ads" would disappear.

pffhahahaha well this isn't ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ Canada, eh? This is the US and as someone that works for the government, a local one at that, I can tell you that we aren't raking in the bucks. About the only benefit I get that *most* in the private sector don't is I get sick time and vacation time.

You're really trying here, aren't you? I can't imagine having such a raging hate boner for someone while trying to tuck it into my "I'm a skeptic" waistband.
I guess the question is going to be "how do you define successful".

Feeding as many people of New York City as possible, cheaper.
If the store is a huge money loss for the city, and the stores are empty of customers,

How the hell can both of these things happen at once? No one will be shopping there but it will still cost a lot? It doesn't even make sense a little bit. The idea is not for this store to make the city money. It's going to cost the city money. That's not even up for debate but I highly doubt it'll be empty. Even your naysayer friends are saying people will go in there and buy it out. Of course, in their version it'll be everyone but the people that need it. Everyone has their own way to hate I guess.
its possible that even a Mamdani cult member

Who are these cult members? The only ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ person feverishly posting about Mamdani in this thread is you, guy. You're it. You have more posts in this thread than anyone. That's it. You. Top of the charts.

This is such a dumb ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ take too. Do you know why we call Trumpers cult members? Because they worship a man who is openly, and aggressively ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ over his own people. He's making their lives worse because, at best, he doesn't care, at worst, he wants their money. Mamdani doesn't have a cult. No one here is gushing over him as he works to destroy people around him. He's doing what he genuinely thinks is best for the people of New York, and a lot of people agree with him.

At least use the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ terminology right if you're going to talk down to others from your self appointed high horse.
If it gives cheaper prices, is popular but still operates at a loss? Some might think that is a "success", but its not as clear cut.

THE GOAL ISN'T TO MAKE ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ MONEY. God ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ damn why is that so hard to get?
The one thing that "government owned" stores could do is to take care of the problem of "food deserts". (These are areas of a city where the average citizen is not geographically close to a grocery store, and is forced to do much of their shopping at places like convenience stores, where access to fresh produce is limited.) But, I do not know where these stores are being built or if they would have a role in addressing the food desert problem.

So you literally don't even know if that's what Mamdani is doing, but you are still going to reflexively ◊◊◊◊ talk this whole process? Where's Taylor Swift at? She's got a song about this.
 
It's a prop, just a small part of this larger vanity project. 5 stores in a city with a population of 8.5 Million? Once the restaurant, bodega owners and shoplifters have had their way with these stores there'll be precious little left over for the working poor to save a few bucks on.
5 stores, taking years to open, is just milking the idea for asspats. Don't be feeble about it, take over the whole city wide industry.

I'm sure you're the only person to think of that lol. I'm sure Mamdani and his administration would never, ever have thought of that and have absolutely no idea how to prevent it /s
 
Moynihan: Mamdani wants to get rid of prisons. He wants to abolish private property.

Martin: When did he ever say that?

Moynihan: I don’t answer to you.

Phillip: Has he actually said that?

Video in link
Who's Moynihan and Phillip?

For whatever its worth, I think most of Mamdani's ideas are bad ideas that have been tried before and worked out badly, rent control is the obvious example, Almost no other economic policy has a longer history of making the problem it meant to address even worse. I encourage him to try them again though. That's the great thing about federalism. We can watch someone else try a thing and see how it works out before we decide.
 
Who's Moynihan and Phillip?

For whatever its worth, I think most of Mamdani's ideas are bad ideas that have been tried before and worked out badly, rent control is the obvious example, Almost no other economic policy has a longer history of making the problem it meant to address even worse. I encourage him to try them again though. That's the great thing about federalism. We can watch someone else try a thing and see how it works out before we decide.

Well the good thing is what's working now is absolutely perfect and no one has even tried it before. So we know that sticking with what's happening will end in success for all involved. Thank you for your contribution to the situation. Hopefully if Mamdani sees this he'll just stick with the status quo of what the previous Mayor's did.

That's the great thing about the internet. Anyone with absolutely nothing to add can be critical without having to provide an intellectual contribution.
 
Well the good thing is what's working now is absolutely perfect and no one has even tried it before. So we know that sticking with what's happening will end in success for all involved. Thank you for your contribution to the situation. Hopefully if Mamdani sees this he'll just stick with the status quo of what the previous Mayor's did.

That's the great thing about the internet. Anyone with absolutely nothing to add can be critical without having to provide an intellectual contribution.
Awfully snarky when I just said I don't think they will work but I encourage him to try. I wish him luck in challenging my pre-existing beliefs, I just don't want him to do it where I live just yet.
 
I'm sure you're the only person to think of that lol. I'm sure Mamdani and his administration would never, ever have thought of that and have absolutely no idea how to prevent it /s

I'm sure you're the only person to think of that lol. I'm sure Mamdani and his administration would never, ever have thought of that and have absolutely no idea how to prevent it /s

Yeah, some of these complaints are ridiculous. Just a few thoughts one what will actually be happening:

1) "30%" less is very subjective. I suspect they are likely comparing it to a higher-priced mid-sized supermarket store in Manhattan and not to an Aldi in the middle of Kansas.

2) These stores are going up in Food Deserts. If you think it is worthwhile to drive to these locations thinking you can re-sell them for profit you have no idea how much you are going to lose from gas, tolls and time used. If you want wholesale buy from wholesalers or get a Restaurant Depot card.

3) While I haven't read the business model its probably going to be small and tight operations. You won't be seeing loss-leaders, adverts, luxury items, etc. They wouldn't be needed much in a food desert.

4) This has been done before with private-public partnerships, in Philly they filled multiple food deserts with profitable or breakeven stores. Philly had the advantage of the food deserts being in locations where there were a lot of abandoned properties that places like Brown's Super Store could fill. I don't know what the NYC situation would be but I suspect smaller footprint stores can fill their needs.
 
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Awfully snarky when I just said I don't think they will work but I encourage him to try. I wish him luck in challenging my pre-existing beliefs, I just don't want him to do it where I live just yet.

You literally started it with "I think most of his ideas are bad ideas" and yet you want to complain about snark? lol. Ok.
 
You literally started it with "I think most of his ideas are bad ideas" and yet you want to complain about snark? lol. Ok.
My point stands, I wasn't being snarky. I do think they won't work but I think its good that they be tried again. This time I might be wrong. You seem to be angry just because I disagree with Mamdami, I find that odd.

I never said the status quo was great; I never said it's bad to try new things. I've basically said the opposite of it's bad to try new things. Its good, I just prefer the be tried at a small scale first, like Mamdami is doing in NY. I'm also glad I don't live in NY while he's tyring them. With some ideas, I prefer they be tried somewhere I don't live while others, I'm fine if they try them where I do live. The great thing about federalism, we don't have to try everything at scale first we can let others try out their ideas where they live. If they work great. If they don't the harm will be limited.

The apparent anger at someone just saying, I don't think they will but go ahead, is odd to me.
 
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Yeah, some of these complaints are ridiculous. Just a few thoughts one what will actually be happening:

1) "30%" less is very subjective. I suspect they are likely comparing it to a higher-priced mid-sized supermarket store in Manhattan and not to an Aldi in the middle of Kansas.

2) These stores are going up in Food Deserts. If you think it is worthwhile to drive to these locations thinking you can re-sell them for profit you have no idea how much you are going to lose from gas, tolls and time used. If you want wholesale buy from wholesalers or get a Restaurant Depot card.

3) While I haven't read the business model its probably going to be small and tight operations. You won't be seeing loss-leaders, adverts, luxury items, etc. They wouldn't be needed much in a food desert.

4) This has been done before with private-public partnerships, in Philly they filled multiple food deserts with profitable or breakeven stores. Philly had the advantage of the food deserts being in locations where there were a lot of abandoned properties that places like Brown's Super Store could fill. I don't know what the NYC situation would be but I suspect smaller footprint stores can fill their needs.
As far as I can tell, Mamdani's plan is explicitly not intended to be profitable or breakeven.

Not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that. I don't expect or even want government services to be structured as profit centers. If Philly can figure out a way to make the program pay for itself, great. But it's not a requirement for me.

Just... people need to be clear about what metrics they're using to measure success, what promises of success are actually being made, and whether the metrics they have in mind are actually suitable for comparing the results to the promises.
 
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My point stands, I wasn't being snarky. I do think they won't work but I think its good that they be tried again. This time I might be wrong. You seem to be angry just because I disagree with Mamdami, I find that odd.

Good news, I'm not angry but this thread is mostly comments saying nothing other than, "That won't work" and not even addressing things like: Is Mamdani doing it differently than before? Has he adjusted his plan to adapt to changes that have been made over the last decade or so (since the last study was done), and so on. Nope, just like your comment it was nothing more than "these plans suck, they sucked before and they suck now".
I never said the status quo was great; I never said it's bad to try new things. I've basically said the opposite of it's bad to try new things. Its good, I just prefer the be tried at a small scale first, like Mamdami is doing in NY. I'm also glad I don't live in NY while he's tyring them. With some ideas, I prefer they be tried somewhere I don't live while others, I'm fine if they try them where I do live. The great thing about federalism, we don't have to try everything at scale first we can let others try out their ideas where they live. If they work great. If they don't the harm will be limited.

The apparent anger at someone just saying, I don't think they will but go ahead, is odd to me.

Yes, you mentioned that. Sometimes when things are tried at smaller scales they fail because certain ideas require large scale implementations. Is this one of them? No idea, but the only people that even qualify for a rent freeze are ones that apply and go through the process. I think on the largest scale it's 1 million people and it's only for people on 1-2 year leases.

My point is there was no real point to your post. That's why I addressed it the way I did. "I think these ideas are terrible, but let 'er buck" isn't really a contribution so much as a derogatory jab and then you got defensive for me calling it out. What did you expect the reaction to be?
 
Good news, I'm not angry but this thread is mostly comments saying nothing other than, "That won't work" and not even addressing things like: Is Mamdani doing it differently than before? Has he adjusted his plan to adapt to changes that have been made over the last decade or so (since the last study was done), and so on. Nope, just like your comment it was nothing more than "these plans suck, they sucked before and they suck now".


Yes, you mentioned that. Sometimes when things are tried at smaller scales they fail because certain ideas require large scale implementations. Is this one of them? No idea, but the only people that even qualify for a rent freeze are ones that apply and go through the process. I think on the largest scale it's 1 million people and it's only for people on 1-2 year leases.

My point is there was no real point to your post. That's why I addressed it the way I did. "I think these ideas are terrible, but let 'er buck" isn't really a contribution so much as a derogatory jab and then you got defensive for me calling it out. What did you expect the reaction to be?
Fair enough. I am interested in the conversation, you are right, I don't have much to contribute other than, I think he'll mostly fail but I'll wait and see how things turn out before I get too excited. If this were a real-life conversation, I'd be the guy listening quietly and someone would have probably asked me what I thought. So, I figured, I'd act like someone had.

Maybe that's my problem, I sort act like the forum is a party and I'm wandering from conversation to conversation. And this seemed like I was randomly butting in for no good reason. Probably should have started with a "for what its worth (not much) IMHO....".

ETA: I will add, I think the notion that failure on a small scale happened because it really needs to be done at a large scale is a recipe for disaster. Maybe it's true but that seems like a fairly extraordinary claim for most things.
 
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2) These stores are going up in Food Deserts.
Are they? I would hope they are, and it makes sense that they are. I just haven't seen anything specifically about where the new stores are located and where they are in relation to other supermarkets. (Most of the information I have seen has been about food pricing rather than location/availability.)

3) While I haven't read the business model its probably going to be small and tight operations. You won't be seeing loss-leaders, adverts, luxury items, etc. They wouldn't be needed much in a food desert.
They might not have luxury items, but they still may need adverts (just so people can do price comparisons).

You said they could be to be 'small and tight operations'.. But aren't they creating 5 stores total, across all of New York? That seems like they would have to be pretty large stores to have any sort of impact.
 
They would need advertisement more than most of the competition. They've got to raise brand awareness, let people know where they actually are, and explain why someone should go out of their way to go to them rather than a bodega.

Sure, it may seem crazy to folks who follow news, politics, and current events religiously but that's not most people. Less than half of registered voters turned up to vote in the last mayoral election, I'd bet most have barely heard of the new groceries.
 
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Are they? I would hope they are, and it makes sense that they are. I just haven't seen anything specifically about where the new stores are located and where they are in relation to other supermarkets. (Most of the information I have seen has been about food pricing rather than location/availability.)
I do not know the landscape but the mention of food deserts was very much the point of these things being made in the first place.


They might not have luxury items, but they still may need adverts (just so people can do price comparisons).

Why?

You said they could be to be 'small and tight operations'.. But aren't they creating 5 stores total, across all of New York? That seems like they would have to be pretty large stores to have any sort of impact.
They would need to be larger than those micro-supermarkets that can pop-up in wealthier neighborhoods, but smaller than your average Safeway/Giant/Acme. My thoughts would be something the size of an Aldi store without the center aisle - or a center aisle with foodstuffs.

But like I said, I haven't seen the business plan.
 
It's a prop, just a small part of this larger vanity project. 5 stores in a city with a population of 8.5 Million? Once the restaurant, bodega owners and shoplifters have had their way with these stores there'll be precious little left over for the working poor to save a few bucks on.

5 stores, taking years to open, is just milking the idea for asspats. Don't be feeble about it, take over the whole city wide industry.
Its a pilot program meant to address places where the supermarkets are not serving the residents.
 
Who's Moynihan and Phillip?

For whatever its worth, I think most of Mamdani's ideas are bad ideas that have been tried before and worked out badly,
They've worked out well also.
rent control is the obvious example,
Eh, the jury is still out. Also, its not a long term solution.
Almost no other economic policy has a longer history of making the problem it meant to address even worse.
Austerity. And I don't think you have a single shred of evidence to support your claim.
I encourage him to try them again though. That's the great thing about federalism. We can watch someone else try a thing and see how it works out before we decide.
And then when it works, we can vote to take away the infrastructure that makes it work!
 

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