English Should not be Compulsory in High School

[zooterkin]

There were a couple of times in primary school that I remember learning something about math. The first was when we were given different sized containers and allowed to play filling them up with water. Didn't take long to understand how volume worked. The second was when we were given Cuisenaire rods and allowed to play with them. That's when the penny dropped for me on math.

...

I remember having Cuisinaire rods when I was young, in the 60s. I don't think we had them at school, I think they were pretty new, at least in the UK, and I'm pretty sure one of my parents got them through their job (they were both schoolteachers).

Now you've mentioned them, I wish I'd got them for my kids, and then for my grandkids, but it's probably a bit late for even the latter now. However, I think the resources for kids are much better now, and the Numberblocks series on BBC TV conveys much of what you get from playing with the rods (though obviously not as physically). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numberblocks

 

[gypsyjackson]

I remember having Cuisinaire rods when I was young, in the 60s. I don't think we had them at school, I think they were pretty new, at least in the UK, and I'm pretty sure one of my parents got them through their job (they were both schoolteachers).

Now you've mentioned them, I wish I'd got them for my kids, and then for my grandkids, but it's probably a bit late for even the latter now. However, I think the resources for kids are much better now, and the Numberblocks series on BBC TV conveys much of what you get from playing with the rods (though obviously not as physically). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numberblocks

There are Numberblocks toys that might fulfil that need. I have seen them used on YouTube, not in the flesh/plastic.

https://janieandjoe.com/store/hand2mind-mathlink-cubes-activity-set-numberblocks-heroes-with-zeroes Is an example.

 

[EHocking]

There are Numberblocks toys that might fulfil that need. I have seen them used on YouTube, not in the flesh/plastic.

https://janieandjoe.com/store/hand2mind-mathlink-cubes-activity-set-numberblocks-heroes-with-zeroes Is an example.

I don’t think Numberwang is as useful.
(to add OT content, I can’t recall using rods, but do remember using abacus in later primary school, but even then very minimally)

 

[novaphile]

I don’t think Numberwang is as useful.
(to add OT content, I can’t recall using rods, but do remember using abacus in later primary school, but even then very minimally)

I can remember a related thing from primary school...

We had plain timber items that were grooved to show the number of 'unit' cubes they contained.

10's were grooved sticks, 100's were grooved squares that showed that 10 x 10 = 100 (you could literally count the sections if you needed that level of proof).

I think there were even some 1000's which were cubes made up of 10 x 10 sides.

I think they had an effect on me, because I tend to remember them from time to time when thinking of things like litres, millilitres etc.

 

[EHocking]

I can remember a related thing from primary school...

We had plain timber items that were grooved to show the number of 'unit' cubes they contained.

10's were grooved sticks, 100's were grooved squares that showed that 10 x 10 = 100 (you could literally count the sections if you needed that level of proof).

I think there were even some 1000's which were cubes made up of 10 x 10 sides.

I think they had an effect on me, because I tend to remember them from time to time when thinking of things like litres, millilitres etc.

They were way too groovy for our square school teachers to use.

 

[Darat]

No modern stuff like sticks in my primary schooling, if a chisel and slab of stone was good enough for god....

 

[arthwollipot]

I'd love to have learned how to use an abacus when I was learning basic arithmetic.

 

[ahhell]

Funny thing about the abacus, the earliest known versions are from Mesopotamia. The Egyptians, Greeks, Romans all used them, then we stopped in the west. Probably because Indian numerals are so convenient.

 

[dudalb]

Kids aren't interested in anything except Pokemon or whatever the current equivalent is.

Why do you think school is compulsory in the first place? Adults know better than kids do what they will need to know as adults. We have to make them learn the things that they will need because we know that they won't do it on their own.

And hopefully, by making them learn some things, they will discover an interest that they didn't know about before.

That is oversimplistic,,,and I could debate that some adults don;t know better then kids, but overall I agree.
People forget what it was like in High School. A lot of teenagers would pick as many "skate" courses as possbiel so they could graduate High School with as little work as possible.
I would High Schooks students a few elective, but not as many as they, at l east in California, do now.
For one thing, I would make Math and Science mandatory every semester. I might allowd kids to choose which science they want to take, but take a courses in sceince they must. And, of course, you need the math to study science; math is the language of science.
And, to get more cynical, you are going to have to do a hell of a lot of things you might not want to do in your like, mbight as well get used to it now.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

That is oversimplistic,,,and I could debate that some adults don;t know better then kids, but overall I agree.
People forget what it was like in High School. A lot of teenagers would pick as many "skate" courses as possbiel so they could graduate High School with as little work as possible.
I would High Schooks students a few elective, but not as many as they, at l east in California, do now.
For one thing, I would make Math and Science mandatory every semester. I might allowd kids to choose which science they want to take, but take a courses in sceince they must. And, of course, you need the math to study science; math is the language of science.
And, to get more cynical, you are going to have to do a hell of a lot of things you might not want to do in your like, mbight as well get used to it now.

I see what you did there...

 

[ahhell]

That is oversimplistic,,,and I could debate that some adults don;t know better then kids, but overall I agree.
People forget what it was like in High School. A lot of teenagers would pick as many "skate" courses as possbiel so they could graduate High School with as little work as possible.
I would High Schooks students a few elective, but not as many as they, at l east in California, do now.
For one thing, I would make Math and Science mandatory every semester. I might allowd kids to choose which science they want to take, but take a courses in sceince they must. And, of course, you need the math to study science; math is the language of science.
And, to get more cynical, you are going to have to do a hell of a lot of things you might not want to do in your like, mbight as well get used to it now.

I largely agree but, the math that is the language of science is calculus, there's no way you can get all or even most kids in highschooler taking calculus. So, science in high school necessarily dumbed down.

And I still don't see what you did there.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I was grading gibberish while I was in Grad School.

 

[dudalb]

I find it scary that a few people who think of themselves as skeptics seem to think expecting schools to actuallly teach something is an outrageous, old fashioned, unprogressive idea.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

I find it scary that a few people who think of themselves as skeptics seem to think expecting schools to actuallly teach something is an outrageous, old fashioned, unprogressive idea.

Says the man who apparently didn't learn to spell at school. I can't blame you for that, since schools have not been doing a good job of teaching spelling.

The school environment itself isn't conducive to learning the subjects 'taught'. However it does instill social mores. One thing I hated was the emphasis on competition. High School wasn't there to give everybody an education, Its purpose was to weed out the dumb ones and preen up the geniuses. But some of us didn't play ball. My biology teacher wasn't happy when I spent time helping other students to understand the material, because it was 'hurting' my chances of beating them in the exams. He also got upset when I wouldn't go on his rugby team.

When I left high school I didn't go to university like the teachers expected, I took a job as a telephone exchange technician. The way trainees were treated there was totally different. Cooperation was encouraged during lessons, and everyone was expected to pass exams with high marks. We were treated like adults (though most of us were still teenagers) and expected to behave like adults. The environment was different because we needed to actually learn the stuff we were taught.

 

[jimbob]

What are years 12 & 13? 12 year old and 13 year olds?

6th form.

I moved up from the 5th year to year 12, if I remember when the change happened. (It might have been between 4th year and year 11)

ETA. READ THE DATE JIM

 

[zooterkin]

There are Numberblocks toys that might fulfil that need. I have seen them used on YouTube, not in the flesh/plastic.

https://janieandjoe.com/store/hand2mind-mathlink-cubes-activity-set-numberblocks-heroes-with-zeroes Is an example.

I think you can still get the Cuisinaire rods, too. But by "too late", I meant my grandchildren are now probably too old to benefit, though there may be one more opportunity to come.

 

[Darat]

I was lucky in my high schooling that we were split into forms of up to about 24 based alphabetically on your surname and we were only fully streamed for the last 2 years and then only in examination subjects. It meant most forms had their thickos and their clever dicks so you learned to communicate with people more and less intelligent than you were. That has probably stood me in good stead in my life more than anything else learned in high school.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Not for nothing, but some rando screaming "Gawdzilla Sama!" would pretty much put me on red alert.

IRL name being shouted would have been very much funnier.

 

[ahhell]

Says the man who apparently didn't learn to spell at school. I can't blame you for that, since schools have not been doing a good job of teaching spelling.

The school environment itself isn't conducive to learning the subjects 'taught'. However it does instill social mores. One thing I hated was the emphasis on competition. High School wasn't there to give everybody an education, Its purpose was to weed out the dumb ones and preen up the geniuses. But some of us didn't play ball. My biology teacher wasn't happy when I spent time helping other students to understand the material, because it was 'hurting' my chances of beating them in the exams. He also got upset when I wouldn't go on his rugby team.

When I left high school I didn't go to university like the teachers expected, I took a job as a telephone exchange technician. The way trainees were treated there was totally different. Cooperation was encouraged during lessons, and everyone was expected to pass exams with high marks. We were treated like adults (though most of us were still teenagers) and expected to behave like adults. The environment was different because we needed to actually learn the stuff we were taught.

Very different from my experience. I was exempted from history class on the condition that I tutor some other students. I have plenty of issues with the public school I went to but not that one. The counselors were basically useless; I had no idea how to get into college, and they did nothing to inform me.

There does seem to be a connection between treating kids like adults making forcing them to act like adults even if they aren't. Lots of kvetching on the right about college basically stunting the majority of college students. Having started college in my mid 20s, I tend to agree. The difference between students that transferred from Junior college and those that went straight to university was noticeable.

 

[Ranb]

I'd learned to read and write and do arithmetic long before I even got to high school.

Did you not notice I specifically said the last two years of high school?

I did not, as I was replying to a previous post (#263).