Merged Charlie Kirk shot at Utah Valley University event. / Charlie Kirk Shot And Killed

[jimbob]

Speaking of semantic games, calling for a trial is pretty much the opposite of calling for violence.

(And yes, there is ample reason to think that doctors who provide trans-affirming treatments should be made to answer questions about malpractice and ethical violations.)

Not when there is clearly no case to answer.

Then the inference is that the trial is to find them guilty. A kangaroo court prior to a lynching.

 

[plague311]

And yet, who is all your criticism directed at? Kirk, not Robinson. You talk about how hateful Kirk supposedly was, but not about how hateful and violent Robinson was.

This thread is about Charlie Kirk. It would make sense to talk about the subject of a thread, no? What do you want me to say about Robinson? He's a ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ moron that shot and killed someone. He's a murderer. Until he goes to trial or more information gets leaked I don't really have much to add.

You say you don't approve of the Kirk assassination, but I see no evidence that you actually disaprove.

Because we don't prove negatives around here. That's a thing in the skepticism\critical thought universe, but just for ◊◊◊◊◊ and giggles, this was me 120+ pages ago:

I don't condone this killing

 

[dirtywick]

https://www.commondreams.org/news/johnson-us-military-communism

i guess not to be outdone

In the weeks following a series of Democratic primary victories by progressive and democratic socialist candidates in New York, Colorado, Kentucky, Ohio, Texas, and elsewhere, Trump and his allies in the GOP have relentlessly hammered on the idea that the nation was under siege by “godless Communists” who want to “completely destroy the traditional American way of life,” rhetoric that echoed McCarthy era red-baiting to many critics.

In just two weeks since those primaries on June 23, Reuters found that Trump had invoked “communism” at least 81 times to demonize candidates and officials like New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani and others, who have promoted policies like Medicare for All, higher taxes on the wealthy, the expansion of public utilities, the abolition of US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, cutting off aid to Israel, and other policies supported by large numbers of Democratic voters.

Trump’s recent rhetoric has indicated that opposing “communism” goes beyond simply voting to keep these candidates out of power. He’s referred to the so-called communists as “animals,” as a “cancer” that needs to be “cut out fast.”

by calling these guys fascists, it makes it extremely dangerous for them to continue to say things like that because it promotes violence against them. that's what charlie kirk was fighting for, and ultimately what he died for. killed while making propaganda videos for fascists by a lone nut with a gun from a white two parent religious, conservative household.

 

[Emily's Cat]

If I called for Nuremberg trials for planned parenthood workers, it would be clear that I was calling for kangaroo courts and lynchings of them. It's exactly the same.

How on earth can you conflate the Nuremberg trials with kangaroo courts?

Oh won’t someone think of the poor nazis, so unjustly lynched without fair due process!!!!!

 

[Emily's Cat]

What would not be justified is calling for them for people who are innocent. The obvious insinuation (that Kirk wanted his audience to draw) is that Doctors helping trans kids are guilty of the something as odious as the Holocaust, and that, like senior Nazis they should be executed.

Doctors are engaging in a massively immoral, harmful experiment on minors that involves instigating sterility, inorgasmia, and the amputation of healthy body parts in the name of an ideology.

Sterilizing Gay and autistic kids because it’s fashionable and profitable is an atrocity.

 

[sackett]

To minds that find romance in nazism, the Nuremberg Trials are simply an example of
what winners do to losers, and they quite hanker for the experience, partly as payback
and partly for the spectacle and thrill -- and, most erotically, for the executions! They
know perfectly well what the term Nuremberg Trial means, and so do their fans.

This is nothing new. I can recall second-generation nazis, people my own age, born during and right
after WW2, who were vengefully thrilled by talking about Nuremberg Mark II. Then the Jews and
the Reds would learn about justice!

 

[sackett]

Doctors are engaging in a massively immoral, harmful experiment on minors that involves instigating sterility, inorgasmia, and the amputation of healthy body parts in the name of an ideology.

Sterilizing Gay and autistic kids because it’s fashionable and profitable is an atrocity.

Holy Hohokam, where's all that coming from?

An extensive and well-documented source, undoubtedly. As will appear from your subsequent posting.
Yes? Yes!

 

[jimbob]

How on earth can you conflate the Nuremberg trials with kangaroo courts?

Oh won’t someone think of the poor nazis, so unjustly lynched without fair due process!!!!!

Read what @sackett says

To minds that find romance in nazism, the Nuremberg Trials are simply an example of
what winners do to losers, and they quite hanker for the experience, partly as payback
and partly for the spectacle and thrill -- and, most erotically, for the executions! They
know perfectly well what the term Nuremberg Trial means, and so do their fans.

This is nothing new. I can recall second-generation nazis, people my own age, born during and right
after WW2, who were vengefully thrilled by talking about Nuremberg Mark II. Then the Jews and
the Reds would learn about justice!

@Emily's Cat the problem with communication is not at my end. It's with your misunderstanding of what calling for Nuremberg trials for doctors implies.

 

[Helen]

Nuremburg is a dog whistle, used by the extreme right wing in western democracies. We hear it here as well, about doctors and medical scientists, especially after covid, and about politicians the extreme right consider traitors. The implications are that they will be killed.

 

[EHocking]

Nuremburg is a dog whistle, used by the extreme right wing in western democracies. We hear it here as well, about doctors and medical scientists, especially after covid, and about politicians the extreme right consider traitors. The implications are that they will be killed…

.. because they are “criminals”.

 

[jimbob]

Nuremburg is a dog whistle, used by the extreme right wing in western democracies. We hear it here as well, about doctors and medical scientists, especially after covid, and about politicians the extreme right consider traitors. The implications are that they will be killed.

Exactly.

.. because they are “criminals”.

And unlike the actual Nuremberg trials, the implications are that it's a show trial. Because as @sackett explained, neonazis regard the *actual* Nuremberg trials as show trials.

Those calling for Nuremberg trials for things that are not actually genocidal acts, generally believe that the original Nuremberg trials were nothing more than "victor's justice".

 

[Darat]

Nuremburg is a dog whistle, used by the extreme right wing in western democracies. We hear it here as well, about doctors and medical scientists, especially after covid, and about politicians the extreme right consider traitors. The implications are that they will be killed.

Its almost as if the meaning of phrases and words can change over time!

 

[jimbob]

@Emily's Cat

The actions of US health insurance companies in refusing treatment, has lead to many deaths especially on the grounds of pre-existing conditions (the infamous example of refusing to pay for skin cancer treatment because of previous acne springs to mind).

If someone said that people who worked in that industry should face Nuremberg trials, that would be a call for violence.

How on earth can you conflate the Nuremberg trials with kangaroo courts?

Oh won’t someone think of the poor nazis, so unjustly lynched without fair due process!!!!!

For the umpteenth time. *I* am not. However I'm not calling for Nuremberg trials for doctors who at worst might have made a wrong medical decision from the best of intentions. Those calling for the above are conflating them.

That isn't surprising when the antivax subculture that called for Nuremberg trials for doctors is full of neonazis who think the Nazis did nothing wrong.

At best, Kirk was flirting with that subculture. Why else would he also minimise the Holocaust by saying that abortion was worse?

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

I'm sure he did. Because that's what people like you keep saying. You are encouraging violence. You are excusing violence. You are blaming the victim of violence.

And you don't see anything wrong with that. You don't even see how that might encourage violence in directions you don't want. How incredibly foolish.

Modern day nazis, eh? Too cowardly to admit that ye are nazis.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

Its almost as if the meaning of phrases and words can change over time!

Or according to context.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Nuremburg is a dog whistle, used by the extreme right wing in western democracies. We hear it here as well, about doctors and medical scientists, especially after covid, and about politicians the extreme right consider traitors. The implications are that they will be killed.

The terminology, as kangaroo trials used to punish those you disagree with, seems to have first gained popularity with FOTLs and other Sov Cit types.

 

[dirtywick]

i think defending the fascist propagandist calling for nuremburg trials by calling everyone else nazis is another one of those times that calls for some self reflection on how you got to that point

 

[TragicMonkey]

It's a touching tribute to the generosity of spirit that so many of y'all are still mistaking dishonest interlocutors for mere fools. Perhaps you'll learn otherwise in another 158 pages?

 

[The Great Zaganza]

The Nuernberg trials were by definition a Kangaroo Court in that it made up offenses that hadn't existed prior to the trials, and assumed legal powers over the leadership of defeated Germany it didn't have. No Jurisdiction, no code of laws prior to the offense.
Doesn't mean it was wrong.

We probably should have a whole lot more of them.
So it's weird that people think the ICC is a bad thing when it is the direct successor of the Nuernberg Courts.

 

[jimbob]

The Nuernberg trials were by definition a Kangaroo Court in that it made up offenses that hadn't existed prior to the trials, and assumed legal powers over the leadership of defeated Germany it didn't have. No Jurisdiction, no code of laws prior to the offense.
Doesn't mean it was wrong.

I dispute that characterisation. It was something that was so clearly criminal that it didn't need specific laws to point them out. I regard kangaroo courts as being for things that should never be considered crimes.

We probably should have a whole lot more of them.
So it's weird that people think the ICC is a bad thing when it is the direct successor of the Nuernberg Courts.

I guess that is an American thing. Because most British politicians support the ICC.