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Apollo 11 Moon Landing Revisited: Hoax ~vs~ Debunk

At this stage I still lean towards the program not being ready on time. There is no way any responsible person is going to send those three guys up to the Moon with no tested way of bringing them back safely. So yeah, I do think the Apollo 11 Moon Landing was a 'placemarker' if you like, and then highly classified for the next hundred years. That is just my opinion having looked at all of the facts. The guys are on the front page of all the newspapers internationally and on tv live around the world. Mission accomplished whether they went there or not.
So far you have demonstrated that you know little or nothing about the technology that made the Apollo program function.

They did test ways of bringing them back safely. The LM and CM/SM were tested on Earth, then on unmanned flights. Apollo 7 tested the CM/SM in Earth orbit. Apollo 8 tested the CM/SM in lunar orbit. Apollo 9 tested the LM in Earth orbit. Procedures were developed for using the LM as a life boat. Apollo 9 propelled the combined CM/SM/LM using the LM descent stage engine on Apollo 9. Apollo 10 tested the lunar abort procedure.

Apollo 11 was the test landing on the moon. Armstrong and Aldrin landed so far off target that Collins in the CM, was not able to locate them until after after they lifted off. The two astronauts had a brief EVA in which they planted a flag, took some photos and deployed a few experiments.

It was not until Apollo 12 that they managed to land on target and exploit the full extent of their equipment and consumables.

There was a ton of testing. Which tests do you think were required, but omitted?
 
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At this stage I still lean towards the program not being ready on time. There is no way any responsible person is going to send those three guys up to the Moon with no tested way of bringing them back safely. So yeah, I do think the Apollo 11 Moon Landing was a 'placemarker' if you like, and then highly classified for the next hundred years. That is just my opinion having looked at all of the facts. The guys are on the front page of all the newspapers internationally and on tv live around the world. Mission accomplished whether they went there or not.
You didn't answer my question. You're personal, ignorance based opinions as to the feasibility of the Apollo missions don't hold any water. Even your belief that there was "no tested way of bringing them back safely" betrays your ignorance of the mission development steps.

Now back to the question that's making you so uncomfortable that you don't want to answer it: have the world's populations of scientists and engineers have all been fully committed to maintaining the hoax for almost sixty years?
 
The evidence shows it was.


There was a rigorously tested way of bringing them back safely.


...according to your fertile, uninformed imagination.


I see no reason to believe that you have looked at all the facts.


Except the evidence unilaterally supports the conclusion that the missions succeeded as claimed. All that you and your sources can muster to otherwise explain that evidence is ignorance, lies, and imagination.

My opinion doesn't really matter, as I am only in the cheap seats.
 
...was a last-minute change?
This, too, was asked and answered. Apollo 11 did not have to launch in July 1969. It did not even have to launch in July 1970. People at NASA were already reminding each other that technically 1970 was the last year in the decade. The only reason to launch a landing attempt in 1969 was that it was feasible in 1969. There was no need in the summer of 1969 to be panicking and contemplating fraud against the United States and possible jail terms.

I see @Ranb has already outlined the testing program. I will add that Apollo 10 also tested powered descent to P66 and lunar orbit rendezvous, which were two of the outstanding unknowns. After that there was literally nothing left to test except for the actual landing, which is what Apollo 11 tested. From the engineering perspective Apollo 12 was the first operational Apollo mission.

7 times (including Apollo 13)??
Some of the hoax claimants, including Allen, maintained that later Apollo missions succeeded, but that a fake Apollo 11 had to be flown in order to meet Kennedy's deadline under the rubric that it had to be done in 1969. But was Apollo 12 fake? It launched in November 1969. If you had already claimed success according to a fake Apollo 11, why risk discovery by launching another fake mission? Why not rest on your falsified laurels and say you need a year to evaluate the results. If Apollo 12 was real, then how did it get to be so successful after only four more months of work? If a bare-bones Apollo 11 can't have been flown in summer of 1969, how was a full-fledged H-type mission possible just a short time later?

ETA: The other obvious problem was getting the photographic record to match. If you faked only the Apollo 11 imagery, what would you do if the Apollo 12-17 imagery doesn't substantially agree? There are no stars in any of the Apollo photographs, even from the missions that Allen and others concede might have been real. The answer they give to reconcile this is that all the Apollo photography was faked, even if real missions were flown. The only way to ensure consistency between fake photography taken before any real mission and real photography from the real missions is to publish only fake images. And in fact the hoax claimants try to draw evidence of fakery from all the Apollo missions, not just Apollo 11. This just digs you in deeper. You have to compare the risk to NASA of missing Kennedy's deadline (embarrassment, but recovery) with the risk to NASA of being criminally liable for massive fraud.
 
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Unfortunately I wouldn't put anything past Nixon. Not the guys' fault.
Asked and answered. Nixon is irrelevant. The people who know better than Nixon whether it was possible agree that not only was it possible, it succeeded as claimed. This agreement is based on an extensive expert appreciation of the available evidence.

My opinion doesn't really matter, as I am only in the cheap seats.
I agree your opinion is inconsequential. That doesn't excuse it from being poorly informed and clearly biased. You have accused me and others of failing to adequate refute the hoax claims. Are you now prepared to apologize and confess that your judgment is poorly informed and should be retracted?
 
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My opinion doesn't really matter, as I am only in the cheap seats.

We can quantify what is meant by the cheap seats.

The mean sd pile-on, aka bullying, is pathetic and boring.
Or more likely the sad tragedy of when mean sd meets three sd.

In a (Gaussian) probability distribution whose mean is 100 and whose standard deviation is 15, three standard deviations from the mean would be within the extreme 0.15% implied by a score of 55 or less.
 
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This, too, was asked and answered. Apollo 11 did not have to launch in July 1969. It did not even have to launch in July 1970. People at NASA were already reminding each other that technically 1970 was the last year in the decade. The only reason to launch a landing attempt in 1969 was that it was feasible in 1969. There was no need in the summer of 1969 to be panicking and contemplating fraud against the United States and possible jail terms.

I see @Ranb has already outlined the testing program. I will add that Apollo 10 also tested powered descent to P66 and lunar orbit rendezvous, which were two of the outstanding unknowns. After that there was literally nothing left to test except for the actual landing, which is what Apollo 11 tested. From the engineering perspective Apollo 12 was the first operational Apollo mission.


Some of the hoax claimants, including Allen, maintained that later Apollo missions succeeded, but that a fake Apollo 11 had to be flown in order to meet Kennedy's deadline under the rubric that it had to be done in 1969. But was Apollo 12 fake? It launched in November 1969. If you had already claimed success according to a fake Apollo 11, why risk discovery by launching another fake mission? Why not rest on your falsified laurels and say you need a year to evaluate the results. If Apollo 12 was real, then how did it get to be so successful after only four more months of work? If a bare-bones Apollo 11 can't have been flown in summer of 1969, how was a full-fledged H-type mission possible just a short time later?

ETA: The other obvious problem was getting the photographic record to match. If you faked only the Apollo 11 imagery, what would you do if the Apollo 12-17 imagery doesn't substantially agree? There are no stars in any of the Apollo photographs, even from the missions that Allen and others concede might have been real. The answer they give to reconcile this is that all the Apollo photography was faked, even if real missions were flown. The only way to ensure consistency between fake photography taken before any real mission and real photography from the real missions is to publish only fake images. And in fact the hoax claimants try to draw evidence of fakery from all the Apollo missions, not just Apollo 11. This just digs you in deeper. You have to compare the risk to NASA of missing Kennedy's deadline (embarrassment, but recovery) with the risk to NASA of being criminally liable for massive fraud.
Then there's the opposite claim
What Apollo 11 found and saw was so shocking that they never went back and faked all the later missions.

Plus various combinations of both.
 
What Apollo 11 found and saw was so shocking that they never went back and faked all the later missions.
This is actually the claim of @Vixen's YouTube pseudo-psychologist. She cites to him in order to support the proposition he can tell they're lying by reading their body language. But he disagrees fully with Vixen over what they're lying about. He says the Apollo 11 astronauts are hiding evidence of alien visitation that they encountered on their mission.

Intended to contrast with the friendly standard deviation?
You can tell by its body language.
 
This is actually the claim of @Vixen's YouTube pseudo-psychologist. She cites to him in order to support the proposition he can tell they're lying by reading their body language. But he disagrees fully with Vixen over what they're lying about. He says the Apollo 11 astronauts are hiding evidence of alien visitation that they encountered on their mission.
😄
 
Hilariois. You haven't even shown signs of having looked at all of this thread never mind all of the facts.
Keep in mind she started this thread by talking about Armstrong, Aldrin, and Whatshisname. But after two months she's now fully conversant with the facts of one of the most extensive scientific and engineering project in human history.
 
You claim to have taken university level psychology. Surely you can work this out on your own.
HTH
I gave you the description in the post. It's unequivocal what I was referring to, even if the acronym was the wrong one, in error. Yes, we did use these things as psychology students doing experimental psychology.
In high school and university we had to perform some experiments as part of our assessment.

This does not mean I was doing experimental chemistry. :ROFLMAO:
With your superior psych background you would understand the term Grandiose Narcissism, although D-KE May cloud your ability to recognise it?
 
At this stage I still lean towards the program not being ready on time. There is no way any responsible person is going to send those three guys up to the Moon with no tested way of bringing them back safely. So yeah, I do think the Apollo 11 Moon Landing was a 'placemarker' if you like, and then highly classified for the next hundred years. That is just my opinion having looked at all of the facts. The guys are on the front page of all the newspapers internationally and on tv live around the world. Mission accomplished whether they went there or not.
You haven't looked at all the facts, if you were to do so you would realize people like Allen are totally wrong and only speak for the dollars that speaking gives them, GRIFTERS.
 

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