Apollo 11 Moon Landing Revisited: Hoax ~vs~ Debunk

[Axxman300]

But it is also true that one's psychological reactions to stress are rooted in biology and can be observable and measurable. That's not to say random youtubers 'can tell when someone is lying'. All that guy did was highlight all the fidgeting going on. Don't need to be a rocket scientist to come to your own impression.

Cool. Neal Armstrong flew 78 combat missions over Korea, and ejected from his plane at one point. After that he began his stint as a test pilot down at Edwards AFB. One of his first flights was copiloting a B-29 which was to drop a test rocket-plane when an engine failed, and he and the pilto had to get the rocket plane launched before the propeller came loose, which they did. The propeller then flew off, and damaged the other engine, and the two pilots managed to land with the two remaining engines. While at Edwards he flew over 200 different aircraft types including all of the F-100 series, the B-47, and a KC-135. He also flew the Bell X1B, and the legendary X-15. His work in the Gemini Program is legendary as well. Armstrong's bio is full of mechanical failures, rough landings, and lucky breaks.

So my question is how does one read the body language of a guy like Armstrong?

What I see on that video is a guy who just wants to go home and be with his family, a guy with zero tollerance for media BS.

Oh yeah, Neal Armstrong WAS rocket scientist.

 

[JayUtah]

Why did you post it? What do you think it added to the "debate"?

Flooding the zone with deliberate nonsense gives her the leeway to try to write off her accidental nonsense. "Oh, you couldn't see that I was only joking?"

 

[Mojo]

Do you think a geologist wouldn't know the difference between a rock that fell to earth and one from the surface of the moon?
How do you think the moon rocks that fell to earth were first identified as moon rocks?

How were they collected if not by hand?

Some people are pretty clever with their feet.

 

[JayUtah]

Cool. Neal Armstrong flew ... the legendary X-15.

And by so doing earned his astronaut wings. He was an astronaut before coming to NASA.

Oh yeah, Neal Armstrong WAS rocket scientist.

And went back to teaching rocket science after retiring as an astronaut.

 

[JayUtah]

What about the other Apollo missions?

Indeed this is a point worth underscoring. There were seven attempts to land on the Moon, six of them successful. Prior to Apollo 11 there was an entire program of Apollo flight test, and an entire preceding program (Gemini) used only for developing Apollo technology and techniques. The Apollo program did not just spring into existence with Apollo 11 and then fade back into darkness afterward. While the later missions were not as popular, they nevertheless produced the bulk of the evidence we now can point to and say it shows the program was authentic.

 

[Axxman300]

Eisenhower after WWII established NASA as a military arm of the USA, so yes, these were military guys used to just following orders and not asking questions.

You need to stop reading Pravda.

Only the top army brass would know what went on at the White House and what edicts were issued, with trade secrets, e.g., re space, certainly to be treated as trade secrets and not splashed all over the NYT.

Trust me, the US Army wishes it knew what goes on in the White House. I'm not sure the US Army knows what's going on within its subcommands.

Business strategy follows similar principles. Your employees know what their roles are and the broad aims and objectives of one's business. They would not be privy to decisions made behind closed doors however, unless these were disclosed.

Really? Have you met anyone from Sillicon Valley? Good luck keeping secrets there.

You know who else loves to talk about their work? Aerospace techies. I got a detailed explanation of the SR-71's celestial navigation system from the guy who designed it. I knew about the stealth fighter two years before it went public. I know a little about Groom Lake. All from casual conversations with all kinds of cool people.

You need to get out more.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

... I am as objective as I possibly can be.

Try harder, then.

You repeat stupid what-ifs after having it patiently explained why that clearly would not have worked.

For example just today you once again speculated the Apollo craft might just have hidden in low earth orbit for the duration of the purported mission. But you have already been told that the craft would have been literally naked-eye visible in the right conditions and that it was tracked by other nations.
You can look that up yourself if you choose not to trust anyone here. And this was an era when the sky was very far from being full of satellites, and during a cold war when such satellites as there were, were a particular object of interest.

It's a non-starter as an argument. You do see that, don't you? Is there any doubt of that lingering in your mind?

 

[Jack by the hedge]

That is a different issue.

To be fair, it is pretty much the entire issue in this thread.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Eisenhower after WWII established NASA as a military ...

Liar.

 

[Carrot Flower King]

Cool. Neal Armstrong flew 78 combat missions over Korea, and ejected from his plane at one point. After that he began his stint as a test pilot down at Edwards AFB. One of his first flights was copiloting a B-29 which was to drop a test rocket-plane when an engine failed, and he and the pilto had to get the rocket plane launched before the propeller came loose, which they did. The propeller then flew off, and damaged the other engine, and the two pilots managed to land with the two remaining engines. While at Edwards he flew over 200 different aircraft types including all of the F-100 series, the B-47, and a KC-135. He also flew the Bell X1B, and the legendary X-15. His work in the Gemini Program is legendary as well. Armstrong's bio is full of mechanical failures, rough landings, and lucky breaks.

So my question is how does one read the body language of a guy like Armstrong?

What I see on that video is a guy who just wants to go home and be with his family, a guy with zero tollerance for media BS.

Oh yeah, Neal Armstrong WAS rocket scientist.

Test pilots are famous for not asking questions, aren't they? And just doing whatever ◊◊◊◊ they're told to, especially when their lives may be at risk. Famous for it...

 

[JayUtah]

I got a detailed explanation of the SR-71's celestial navigation system from the guy who designed it.

...which, by the way, is a freaking work of art for its time.

You need to get out more.

I've been part owner of a successful engineering company for nearly 20 years now and a practicing professional engineer for considerably longer than that, including for both civilian and military aerospace contracts. Vixen's notion of what goes on at NASA or in an aerospace engineering company is about as credible as claiming houses are made from gingerbread and fairy dust.

 

[LondonJohn]

I was pointing out it was a common phenomenon for people to be unfairly bullied just for being themself.

No, that's not what you were doing. We all know what you were doing.

 

[LondonJohn]

It's unequivocal what I was referring to, even if the acronym was the wrong one, in error.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

 

[Foster Zygote]

Not in year 1500 and only after two or three wars, some 12 million people dead and multiple peasant uprisings throughout Sweden and Finland by pockets of country dwellers desperate to hang on to their Catholic faith. So no, the average person can't grasp that what they perceive as reality is true, ain't necessarily so, which is why people are so convinced the Apollo 11 Moon Landing happened and get so incredibly upset when I wanted to debate it having heard the arguments of the sceptics. They actually believe they have to worship the people who did it and it's a kind of blasphemy to enquire after apparent discrepancies.

Still beating up that straw man. Still pretending that you haven't been buried in an avalanche of facts concerning physics and engineering, and that you haven't embarrassed yourself with your attempts to establish your own knowledge of said subjects.

And admiration for someone's extraordinary achievements isn't the same as blind worship. I have tremendous admiration for people like Julian Bream and Chet Atkins, but that doesn't mean I worship them. And even if I did, it wouldn't be proof that their performances were elaborately faked.

I think your real frustration is that we are impressed with the achievements of the people who made the Apollo Program happen, but aren't impressed with you. You keep talking down to the "merely average", while hinting at being measured in the top tenth of a percent on some unnamed intelligence test (sorry, I don't buy that). You very much desire to be perceived as being on equal footing with the experts in any discussion, but the discussions you've joined or initiated have involved subjects about which the best you can do is attempt to mimic the "smart people noises" you imagine the experts would make. I have little doubt that you succeed in deluding yourself into believing that you've discovered some great flaw in the educated consensus surrounding such subjects as the moon landings, parking garage fires, marine architecture, etcetera. But the subjects themselves are less important to you than the stance of radical opposition you take to whatever the actual, qualified experts say concerning them. That's the stage on which you act out your performance of your investigative brilliance and show everyone else just how disappointingly average they are compared to you.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Eisenhower after WWII established NASA as a military arm of the USA...

No, Vixen. NASA is and always has been a civilian agency.

 

[threadworm]

The Apollo 11 splashdown was not broadcast.

Plenty of satellites orbiting the Earth. It wouldn't necessarily be visible. That is a 'would, could' should' rationalisation.

Tell us how many satellites. What were their orbits? How might those orbits have differed from Apollo's EPO? Why would Apollo handovers between ground stations take hours, not minutes? How were images achieved that were clearly not taken in LEO?

 

[JayUtah]

No, Vixen. NASA is and always has been a civilian agency.

As I documented earlier, NASA's charter specifically forbids it from operating militarily. It is expressly and strictly a civilian agency.

 

[Darat]

You do know that calling someone names doesn't make it true? It simply reveals the insecurities of the person who indulges in name-calling.

Oh I'm not calling you names, I am stating a fact when I say you are a liar.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

It's a very good point, which might be sailing over Vixen's head, that the three main ground receiving stations communicating with Apollo, in the US, Spain and Australia, were handing over to each other after multiple hours, as the earth turned. That's a matter of record.

It would not have worked if the Apollo craft had secretly been in low earth orbit as objects in that orbit take only around 90 minutes to orbit the earth.

The people tracking Apollo in Australia, for example, couldn't do so while unaware of where it was.

 

[Foster Zygote]

If you had basic comprehension skills, you would know that this really isn't what has been happening here.

But what is happening here isn't what she needs to be happening here.