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Apollo 11 Moon Landing Revisited: Hoax ~vs~ Debunk

Vixen said:
Not in year 1500 and only after two or three wars, some 12 million people dead and multiple peasant uprisings throughout Sweden and Finland by pockets of country dwellers desperate to hang on to their Catholic faith. So no, the average person can't grasp that what they perceive as reality is true, ain't necessarily so, which is why people are so convinced the Apollo 11 Moon Landing happened and get so incredibly upset when I wanted to debate it having heard the arguments of the sceptics. They actually believe they have to worship the people who did it and it's a kind of blasphemy to enquire after apparent discrepancies.
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Liar.
 
Vixen said:
So no, the average person can't grasp that what they perceive as reality is true, ain't necessarily so, which is why people are so convinced the Apollo 11 Moon Landing happened and get so incredibly upset when I wanted to debate it having heard the arguments of the sceptics. They actually believe they have to worship the people who did it and it's a kind of blasphemy to enquire after apparent discrepancies.
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If you had basic comprehension skills, you would know that this really isn't what has been happening here.
 
Vixen said:
Not in year 1500 and only after two or three wars, some 12 million people dead and multiple peasant uprisings throughout Sweden and Finland by pockets of country dwellers desperate to hang on to their Catholic faith. So no, the average person can't grasp that what they perceive as reality is true, ain't necessarily so, which is why people are so convinced the Apollo 11 Moon Landing happened and get so incredibly upset when I wanted to debate it having heard the arguments of the sceptics. They actually believe they have to worship the people who did it and it's a kind of blasphemy to enquire after apparent discrepancies.
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What complete bollocks.

Do you enjoy the humiliation?
 
Vixen said:
Not in year 1500 and only after two or three wars, some 12 million people dead and multiple peasant uprisings throughout Sweden and Finland by pockets of country dwellers desperate to hang on to their Catholic faith. So no, the average person can't grasp that what they perceive as reality is true, ain't necessarily so, which is why people are so convinced the Apollo 11 Moon Landing happened and get so incredibly upset when I wanted to debate it having heard the arguments of the sceptics. They actually believe they have to worship the people who did it and it's a kind of blasphemy to enquire after apparent discrepancies.
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Projection. You're making assumptions about the people in this discussion's motives that are as wildly inaccurate as your interpretation of astronaut behaviour in a press conference (a conference I doubt you've seen in full and whose contents I suspect you only know through the filter applied by hoax claimants).

Your idea that defence of the Apollo missions is some sort of religious fervour is ignoring the idea that people have weighed the evidence and found in favour of them occurring as documented.

Stick to discussing facts. If you have any.
 
Vixen said:
Plenty of those fall to Earth, anyway. Most of the 'Moon rock' samples supposedly brought back are locked away and only available for those who apply citing special research.
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If you were handed a chunk of moon rock, would you be able to analyse it and discern that it was indeed not from earth?

Of course not. Nor would I.

So what exactly is your problem with the moon rock samples only being made available to people around the world with the expertise to usefully study their properties?

Do you at least recognise that a fully provenance sample carried back from the moon is different from a meteorite collected on earth and inferred to have been blasted off the moon (rather than any other body) by some impact and then been subjected to the heating of entering earth's atmosphere?
 
Vixen said:
Not in year 1500 and only after two or three wars, some 12 million people dead and multiple peasant uprisings throughout Sweden and Finland by pockets of country dwellers desperate to hang on to their Catholic faith. So no, the average person can't grasp that what they perceive as reality is true, ain't necessarily so, which is why people are so convinced the Apollo 11 Moon Landing happened and get so incredibly upset when I wanted to debate it having heard the arguments of the sceptics. They actually believe they have to worship the people who did it and it's a kind of blasphemy to enquire after apparent discrepancies.
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And furthermore let's be clear here: you are trying to present yourself as better than the average person, that you have some greater understanding of the topic than those poor fools who have merely followed some official narrative, that any opposition to you and the ideas you're pretending to be just asking questions about is driven be emotion and sentiment, not rational thinking.

◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊.

You are nothing more than a dupe of the lies put forward by grifters who make a tidy living through promoting them. You are the embodiment of the thin end of a mindset wedge that ends up with people dying of preventable or curable illnesses or shooting scientists outside their place of work. Suggesting that people are responding in an emotional way to your claims is not far off people dismissing your points (such as they are) because it's your time of the month. Dismissing arguments on the basis of perceived motive is not an escape clause for you.

Let's look at one single aspect of your nonsense: the idea that Apollo's skies are black because they had to be, and that they were instead filmed and photographed on a set somewhere. For that to be true the scale of involvement by all manner of people would be ridiculous, and the idea that the building of a detailed moon set, its use and then destruction, the incorporation of details that were impossible to know in advance. If you are going to cling to that notion of a terrestrial source for Apollo imagery, let's see you provide the precise details. Not a lazy "they must have done that" arm wave, but a precise, point by point, minute by minute timeline and itinerary. Locations. Personnel. Materiel. If you have some above average understanding of how the missions were hoaxed, let's have that instead of you trying to lecture us on the interior workings of the British monarchy or medieval politics.
 
threadworm said:
And furthermore let's be clear here: you are trying to present yourself as better than the average person, that you have some greater understanding of the topic than those poor fools who have merely followed some official narrative, that any opposition to you and the ideas you're pretending to be just asking questions about is driven be emotion and sentiment, not rational thinking.

◊◊◊◊◊◊◊◊.

You are nothing more than a dupe of the lies put forward by grifters who make a tidy living through promoting them. You are the embodiment of the thin end of a mindset wedge that ends up with people dying of preventable or curable illnesses or shooting scientists outside their place of work. Suggesting that people are responding in an emotional way to your claims is not far off people dismissing your points (such as they are) because it's your time of the month. Dismissing arguments on the basis of perceived motive is not an escape clause for you.

Let's look at one single aspect of your nonsense: the idea that Apollo's skies are black because they had to be, and that they were instead filmed and photographed on a set somewhere. For that to be true the scale of involvement by all manner of people would be ridiculous, and the idea that the building of a detailed moon set, its use and then destruction, the incorporation of details that were impossible to know in advance. If you are going to cling to that notion of a terrestrial source for Apollo imagery, let's see you provide the precise details. Not a lazy "they must have done that" arm wave, but a precise, point by point, minute by minute timeline and itinerary. Locations. Personnel. Materiel. If you have some above average understanding of how the missions were hoaxed, let's have that instead of you trying to lecture us on the interior workings of the British monarchy or medieval politics.
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It is elementary nonsense that the favourite argument of your camp runs, "the scale of involvement by all manner of people would be ridiculous" because if something is Top Secret then of course, only a tiny handful of people would know of it. It really doesn't follow that all 400,000 people who worked for NASA were 'in on it'. In any case, the aim was true but it seems reasonable to believe they were nowhere near ready nor had the technology, so yeah, building all those machines and engines were in perfectly good faith, nobody said it wasn't.

BTW I do not present myself 'as better than the average person' but I am entitled to set the record straight when people make false claims. For example, one individual keeps spreading a persistent lie that I am suffering from a terminal illness*. Anywhere else that would be considered abhorrent.

*Needless to say 100% untrue.
 
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Vixen said:
BTW I do not present myself 'as better than the average person'
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Have you forgotten all those posts in which, for example, you have claimed to be a triple niner or to be six steps ahead of everyone else?

Or are you just lying?

ETA: To be fair, you don't present as being better than the average person, but that's not the same thing as presenting yourself.
 
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Jack by the hedge said:
If you were handed a chunk of moon rock, would you be able to analyse it and discern that it was indeed not from earth?

Of course not. Nor would I.

So what exactly is your problem with the moon rock samples only being made available to people around the world with the expertise to usefully study their properties?

Do you at least recognise that a fully provenance sample carried back from the moon is different from a meteorite collected on earth and inferred to have been blasted off the moon (rather than any other body) by some impact and then been subjected to the heating of entering earth's atmosphere?
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I really have no idea but there is nothing that deems only crewed spacecraft can collect them.
 
Mojo said:
Have you forgotten all those posts in which, for example, you have claimed to be a triple niner or to be six steps ahead of everyone else?

Or are you just lying?

ETA: To be fair, you don't present as being better than the average person, but that's not the same thing as presenting yourself.
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You just said 'we are wrestling with a pig' referring to me and then in the next post you complain about my defending myself.
 
Vixen said:
I was trying to address in simple terms your query to me as to why I didn't argue the points in favour of an Apollo 11 Moon Landing as much as the other parties'. Firstly, a debate entails you pick a side and secondly, as I was trying to illustrate by my year 1500 example, the average person is not able to evaluate ideas. It doesn't follow the person with the ideas is the one in the wrong.
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No, this is complete rubbish
 
Vixen said:
You just said 'we are wrestling with a pig' referring to me and then in the next post you complain about my defending myself.
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No, I was asking whether you were lying about how you present yourself, or whether you had really forgotten.

And the "wrestling..." bit was a reference to something that George Bernard Shaw once said, of which most forum members will not be ignorant.
 
Here's the link to the NASA Lunar sample and photo catalogue.

Every sample with multiple search options.

Apollo Samples and Photo catalog

NASA Astromaterials Curation, an integral part of any sample return mission, comprises preparation and allocation of samples for research and education, initial characterization of new samples, and secure storage for the benefit of future generations. Collections curated at the NASA...
curator.jsc.nasa.gov curator.jsc.nasa.gov

Here's an example of a random individual sample.
It includes all the photos, description and what papers have been written by various labs around the world.
Description includes where it was retrieved and it's physical and chemical composition.
For this sample there are 25 references and hundreds of pictures

Apollo Sample Description

Main page of the Antarctic Meteorite Collection at NASA Astromaterials Curation. The curation and collection of Antarctic meteorites is a U.S. funded, cooperative effort among NASA, the National Science Foundation (NSF) and the Smithsonian Institution.
curator.jsc.nasa.gov curator.jsc.nasa.gov
 
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