The behaviour of UK police officers.

[smartcooky]

I don't know exactly how the NZ system works, but if it's anything like ours I would expect sentence ranges to be set in laws, then subject to the guidance issued by the Sentencing Council with potential mitigating or aggravating factors taken into account.

Judges don't just make up sentences...

You might want to try telling that to the victims of the two teenage boys who repeatedly raped two teenage girls across two separate incidents in Fordingbridge, Hampshire, filmed the attacks on their phones and then posted those videos online to further traumatize those victims.

Judge Nicholas Rowland gave them a non-custodial sentence "to avoid criminalising these children unnecessarily" They already ARE ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ criminals!! Instead of prison, they were sentenced to Youth Rehabilitation Orders - in effect, a limp-wristed slap on the back of the hand with a soggy tram-ticket.

There need to be real consequences for crimes like this, regardless of the ages of the perpetrators. Thankfully, this sentence resulted in sufficient public outrage that the Attorney Geneal appealed the sentences, and the boys got four years instead. I would have give then three years for each rape - the sentences served consecutively.

Judge Rowland needs his hard drive checked!

 

[smartcooky]

This is probably relevant: folk being done for saying things in public they've been thinking or saying in private for a long time and being pissed off that racists can't racist so much these days. And that making threats has consequences...

Unfortunately there are a certain, small minority of people (whom I will not specify here because I will get dinged for posting off topic) who can make threats with impunity. They can make verbal threats, physical threats, death threats, and hold up threatening signs in public, but they never face any consequences for doing so - the police turn a blind eye.

But criticize the head of a school district (no threats involved) in a private Whatsapp group, and half a dozen coppers turn up to your place in several police cars, handcuff you in front of your three-year old daughter, take you away for "an interview", and hold you for 11 hours.

And yes, the case was dropped, but NO, that does not make it OK.
This is the current standard of Police behaviour in the UK - your country is cooked, you just don't know it yet!

 

[smartcooky]

BlackBeltBarrister on the damning report on UK Policing by Lord (David) Blunkett, former Labour Home Secretary, and Lord (Nicholas) Herbetr, a former Conservative Police Minister.

13 minutes and well worth the watch of you are at all interesting in how low Policing has sunk to in the UK

You can read the full report here

https://www.college.police.uk/police-leadership-commission/police-leadership-commission-report

For those who wonder why the UK Police behave the way they do, here's your answer.

 

[Darat]

BlackBeltBarrister on the damning report on UK Policing by Lord (David) Blunkett, former Labour Home Secretary, and Lord (Nicholas) Herbetr, a former Conservative Police Minister.

13 minutes and well worth the watch of you are at all interesting in how low Policing has sunk to in the UK

You can read the full report here

https://www.college.police.uk/police-leadership-commission/police-leadership-commission-report

For those who wonder why the UK Police behave the way they do, here's your answer.

We know why they behave the way they do, they are institutionally racist, sexist and every other ist you can think of, they are a cesspit of their own making. We've known this for literally decades and decades indeed for almost two centuries. It's the barrel that is rotten which is why even good apples rot when placed in the barrel. They need to be replaced from top to bottom and bottom to top. It is sad that for some folk it took until "their" grouping became subject to what many other groupings had been screaming about for decades before they took their heads out of the sand.

 

[Nessie]

Unfortunately there are a certain, small minority of people (whom I will not specify here because I will get dinged for posting off topic) who can make threats with impunity. They can make verbal threats, physical threats, death threats, and hold up threatening signs in public, but they never face any consequences for doing so - the police turn a blind eye.

But criticize the head of a school district (no threats involved) in a private Whatsapp group, and half a dozen coppers turn up to your place in several police cars, handcuff you in front of your three-year old daughter, take you away for "an interview", and hold you for 11 hours.

And yes, the case was dropped, but NO, that does not make it OK.
This is the current standard of Police behaviour in the UK - your country is cooked, you just don't know it yet!

There are protests, where the police, due to resourcing issues, do turn a blind eye to criminal activity. Much of the decision making on how protests are policed, are based on intelligence and past conduct of the group that is parading. That is why the far right is more policed than others, as it has a long history of violent protesting. Someone holding up a placard with an offensive or threatening message on it, is far less risk than someone with a brick, or a petrol bomb. It is not true that no action is ever taken against those who do hold up threatening signs in public, but that action often takes place later, after the event.

With no evidence, different groups of people accuse the police of two-tier unfair actions, when they turn a blind eye to the activities of other groups. Those groups are often quick to excuse or ignore activities within their group, that they will wholeheartedly condemn in others.

Meanwhile, the police are being inundated with complaints from the public, about what others have said about them online. Those people demand action and complain if the police do not act. When someone makes a complaint, the police have to first assess if a crime has been committed. With the present vague laws over threatening, menacing online communications, that usually involves making enquiries with the person who posted the message, to determine what they meant. If the head of a school is made aware of what they believe to be threats and menaces, the police should make enquiries. The police are aware that there are a lot of bad actors out there, who make spurious complaints in bad faith, and who weaponise the police against their enemies. It is difficult for the police to say to the head of a school who feels threatened, that they are a bad actor and to not use them to have a go at another.

Yes, sometimes the police can overreact, which is likely based on what they were initially told. The police can be very bad at anchoring and falling hook, line and sinker for the first complaint they get. If a teacher makes out that they are subject to threats and those making the threats pose a danger, they may choose to send "half a dozen coppers" and handcuff the accused. With the mountain of paperwork and queues at the custody suit and for interview rooms, it can easily take 11 hours to enquire into the initial complaint.

The problem is that often not very bright police officers, are having to cope with badly written laws and a public who are often over sensitive, hypocritical bad actors. The present problems lie with us all, not just the police.

 

[Nessie]

We know why they behave the way they do, they are institutionally racist, sexist and every other ist you can think of, they are a cesspit of their own making. We've known this for literally decades and decades indeed for almost two centuries. It's the barrel that is rotten which is why even good apples rot when placed in the barrel. They need to be replaced from top to bottom and bottom to top. It is sad that for some folk it took until "their" grouping became subject to what many other groupings had been screaming about for decades before they took their heads out of the sand.

Replace with whom? The public have lots of bad apples from the top to the the bottom. The reason why the police have lots of bad apples is because they have to recruit from a barrel full of them.

Would it not be better to do what the police are doing, which is to get much better are identifying bad apples and removing them and deterring and otherwise preventing bad apples from joining, so retaining the experienced police officers who are good apples?

 

[Carrot Flower King]

You might want to try telling that to the victims of the two teenage boys who repeatedly raped two teenage girls across two separate incidents in Fordingbridge, Hampshire, filmed the attacks on their phones and then posted those videos online to further traumatize those victims.

Judge Nicholas Rowland gave them a non-custodial sentence "to avoid criminalising these children unnecessarily" They already ARE ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ criminals!! Instead of prison, they were sentenced to Youth Rehabilitation Orders - in effect, a limp-wristed slap on the back of the hand with a soggy tram-ticket.

There need to be real consequences for crimes like this, regardless of the ages of the perpetrators. Thankfully, this sentence resulted in sufficient public outrage that the Attorney Geneal appealed the sentences, and the boys got four years instead. I would have give then three years for each rape - the sentences served consecutively.

Judge Rowland needs his hard drive checked!

If you'd asked me for my views on that one I would have said that the judge got it totally wrong,. Not to mention that the court of appeal has just agreed with that: do keep up.

 

[Rolfe]

We know why they behave the way they do, they are institutionally racist, sexist and every other ist you can think of, they are a cesspit of their own making. We've known this for literally decades and decades indeed for almost two centuries. It's the barrel that is rotten which is why even good apples rot when placed in the barrel. They need to be replaced from top to bottom and bottom to top. It is sad that for some folk it took until "their" grouping became subject to what many other groupings had been screaming about for decades before they took their heads out of the sand.

From where I'm standing it looks more like you suddenly start objecting to criticism of the police when the accusation is one you are philosophically opposed to, such as anti-white racism or pro-trans bias.

 

[Darat]

Replace with whom? The public have lots of bad apples from the top to the the bottom. The reason why the police have lots of bad apples is because they have to recruit from a barrel full of them.

Would it not be better to do what the police are doing, which is to get much better are identifying bad apples and removing them and deterring and otherwise preventing bad apples from joining, so retaining the experienced police officers who are good apples?

In "modern times" - i.e. my entire lifetime so for over 50 years they have according to them been doing that, and little progress has been made, as the inquiries continue to show, as the undercover reporting continues to show and as statistics show. How long do we give them? The police cannot police themselves, they cannot reform themselves.

 

[Darat]

From where I'm standing it looks more like you suddenly start objecting to criticism of the police when the accusation is one you are philosophically opposed to, such as anti-white racism or pro-trans bias.

"Suddenly"?



I do have to admit I didn't start to seriously question policing until I was about 16 or 17.

 

[Rolfe]

Did you read the post you quoted?

 

[Andy_Ross]

We know why they behave the way they do, they are institutionally racist, sexist and every other ist you can think of, they are a cesspit of their own making. We've known this for literally decades and decades indeed for almost two centuries. It's the barrel that is rotten which is why even good apples rot when placed in the barrel. They need to be replaced from top to bottom and bottom to top. It is sad that for some folk it took until "their" grouping became subject to what many other groupings had been screaming about for decades before they took their heads out of the sand.

The old music hall song from 1888 “If you want to know the time ask a policeman” is full of inferences about the crookedness of the police.
The title itself refers to their pilfering of arrested drunks possessions.

The p'lice force is a noble band that safely guard our streets
Their valour is unquestioned and they're noted for their feats
If anything you wish to know they'll tell you with a grin
In fact each one of them is a complete Enquire Within.

If you want to know the time ask a p'liceman
The proper Greenwich time, ask a p'liceman
Ev'ry member of the force, has a watch and chain of course
If you want to know the time ask a p'liceman.

If you stay out late at night and pass through regions queer
Thanks to those noble guardians of foes you have no fear
If drink you want and 'pubs' are shut go to the man in blue
Say you're thirsty and good-natured, and he'll show you what to do.

If you want to get a drink, ask a p'liceman
He'll manage it I think, will a p'liceman
He'll produce the flowing pot, if the 'pubs' are shut or not
He could open all the lot, ask a p'liceman.

If your servant suddenly should leave her cosy place
Don't get out an advertisement her whereabouts to trace
You're told it was a soldier who removed her box of clothes
Don't take the information in, but ask the man who knows.

If you don't know where she is, ask a p'liceman
For he's 'in the know' he is, ask a p'liceman
Though they say with 'red ' she flew yet its ten to one on 'blue'
For he mashes just a few. Ask a p'liceman.

And if you're getting very stout your friends say in a trice
'Consult a good physician, and he'll give you this advice
Go in for running all you can no matter when or how
And if you'd had a trainer, watch a bobby in a row.

If you want to learn to run, ask a p'liceman
How to fly, though twenty 'stun', ask a p'liceman
Watch a bobby in a fight in a tick he's out of sight
For advice on rapid flight, ask a p'liceman.

Or if you're called away from home, and leave your wife behind
You say, 'Oh would that I had a friend to guard the house could find,
And keep my love in safety' but let you're troubles cease
You'll find the longed-for keeper in a member of the p'lice.

If your wife should want a friend, ask a p'liceman
Who a watchful eye will lend, ask a p'liceman
Truth and honour you can trace written on his manly face
When you're gone he'll mind your place, ask a p'liceman.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

The old music hall song from 1888 “If you want to know the time ask a policeman” is full of inferences about the crookedness of the police.
The title itself refers to their pilfering of arrested drunks possessions.

**cough**

The old saying 'If you want to know the time ask a policeman' comes from their habit of relieving drunks they arrested of pocket watches and other valuables. The song comes from the music halls of the late 19th century, but it was obviously a long enough established practice to make it funny then.

 

[Rolfe]

I never realised that until it was referenced earlier in the thread.

 

[Nessie]

In "modern times" - i.e. my entire lifetime so for over 50 years they have according to them been doing that, and little progress has been made, as the inquiries continue to show, as the undercover reporting continues to show and as statistics show. How long do we give them? The police cannot police themselves, they cannot reform themselves.

In Scotland the Ethics, Conduct & Scrutiny Act 2025 has created a far more rigid frame work within the police have to work, when they investigate complaints. All over the UK police forces are rooting out and sacking the bad apples at a far higher rate than ever before. If anything, like going too far in believing complaints of hate crimes, they may have good too far in going after the bad apples and there are some good ones also being disciplined and sacked.

 

[bluesjnr]

Replace with whom? The public have lots of bad apples from the top to the the bottom. The reason why the police have lots of bad apples is because they have to recruit from a barrel full of them.... snip....

Spoken like a true policeman. It's all that scummy public's fault.

 

[Rolfe]

If the senior cops came down like a ton of bricks on behaviour such as that shown in the video of the arrest of Cody Harper, instead of announcing that it's all perfectly fine and this is how they're suppose to act, it would be a start.

 

[Nessie]

Spoken like a true policeman. It's all that scummy public's fault.

No. The police are recruited from the public. Unless you have evidence that somehow, being recruited as a police officer, turns some good people bad, then we can safely say that the bad police officers were always bad people.

 

[bluesjnr]

No. The police are recruited from the public. Unless you have evidence that somehow, being recruited as a police officer, turns some good people bad, then we can safely say that the bad police officers were always bad people.

I do but it's somewhat anecdotal.

Gordon Mitchell was an absolutely great guy whom I used to work with. We got on well. In fact to this day he hasn't returned the guitar I loaned him, such was my trust in him. He left the company we worked at to join the police in Dunfermline, my then home town. I didn't see Gordon for a few years until early one night, when returning from The Elizabethan on Halbeath Road a police car pulled up to me. In it was Gordon, in the passenger seat, and another copper driving.

Gordon had recognised me and had got his mucker to stop. We had a great catch up for around 5 mins or so at the roadside with a few laughs and memories. I leaned down a bit and put my hand on the door for support.

"Get yer haun aff the door". Came the, terse, command from Gordons colleague.

I laughed thinking he was kidding... he wasn't.

"Do as yer telt, get yer haun aff the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ door", was the next order. This came direct from Gordon. He changed in an instant, cursing at me.

In disgust, I turned, shook my head and walked off without uttering a word. They proceeded to follow me, at walking pace, in the patrol car with both of them castigating me for reasons, other than the door lean, utterly unknown to me. This went on for only a short time and they sped off.

I would say that that night was probably the night that any relationship I would have with the police going forward was tarnished... for ever.

Well done Fife Constabulary (now Police Scotland).

Other than enforced interactions for firearms licensing every 5 years, I would not under any circumstances ask or expect a cop to assist me. As I've said, countless times, they will attempt to put you on the wrong side of the law at every opportunity, with impunity as to how they arrive at that situation.

This would have been around 1984/1985. What happened to the funny, happy go lucky lad that I used to work and socialise with?

The police happened to Gordon Mitchell.

That's my story, it's not been embellished. I've told you it exactly as it happened as it's burned in my memory.

Now Nessie, you've told us where you've policed and I'm 99.9% certain that you are NOT Gordon Mitchell. If you are, give me my guitar back.

ETA - I decided to do a bit of digging, having told this story. Would you believe Gordon done very well in the force? I'm not in the least surprised given his attitude. He finished up a Chief Insp.

He says that he followed the advice that a superintendent gave him. The advice was that he should, ‘treat everybody like they’re your mum’. Given my experience with my old friend, Gordon Mitchell, I hope his mum was OK after he joined.

 

[Darat]

No. The police are recruited from the public. Unless you have evidence that somehow, being recruited as a police officer, turns some good people bad, then we can safely say that the bad police officers were always bad people.

How did police recruitment recruit the bad people over the good people?