• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Apollo 11 Moon Landing Revisited: Hoax ~vs~ Debunk

Since you asked me a direct question pertaining to the topic of the thread, here is an image of the sun rising on a Moon surface dawn which was amongst the first to come up on BING.

What do you notice in the sky?

View attachment 73083

Caption:

Lunar dawn awakens with the sun rising over the rugged Moon surface revealing detailed craters and a starry indigo sky. A breathtaking view captures the moment when the sun rises over the Moon's rugged surface, illuminating craters and rocky terrain with a warm, golden glow against a deep indigo sky. ​


(AI Generated Image)

NB
You will see grey shaded areas because it is digitally enhanced to do so.
What you should have noticed was that your image depicts the moon as seen from the moon. See? Two moons.
 
Admitting you're wrong is one of the most disarming things you can do - saying "so sorry, I was wrong, and I can't even promise never to be wrong again", when someone is preparing to garrotte you for ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ up, will in most cases make them as docile and content as a sleepy puppy.

This is my only survival trick, but it has served me well.
 
I would have thought a "triple niner" could have composed a more cogent sentence.

Kaysing's belief is not based on facts. You've already conceded that the cameras used would require exposure times thousands of times longer than those used in order to image stars. So why are you still citing Kaysing's ignorance based beliefs as facts? Kaysing assumed, out of ignorance, that because the sky was black he should see stars in it. He didn't know what he was talking about. His hypothesis that NASA didn't know how to fake the stars convincingly so they just left the sky black is utterly stupid. Not only was he ignorant of the requirements for photographing stars, but he was ignorant of the compositing techniques that could have added them. And they would have been convincing because they would have been images of real stars. But if NASA had done that, professional photographers all over the world would have been asking what the hell was up because, unlike you and Bill Kaysing, they know the limits of photographic equipment.

And the limits of human vision aren't a non sequitur just because they don't conveniently support your ignorance based argument. The Apollo crews were almost always exposed to bright light sources. If you're outdoors at night under bright artificial lightning, like at a sports event, you aren't going to see stars any better than the Apollo crews could. Even if you suddenly turn off all the lights, you'll still need minutes to see even a few stars, and about half an hour for your vision to become completely dark adapted to where you can really see the stars.

You keep talking about facts, but the only "truth" you're interested in is the one you've already decided to believe before attempting to find or construct facts leading to it.

And why would NASA have felt compelled to debunk Kaysing's claims during the interview you're referencing? He didn't make those claims until years later, and even after he did he was an obscure crackpot for many more years after that.


There is no bogeyman under the bed. Don't you realize that in your analogy you're the five-year-old child insisting that there's a monster under your bed? You couldn't have picked a better analogy for your position than this.

And again, none of these people had heard of Bill Kaysing, or his idiotic ideas about stars and photography.

Performative incredulity doesn't make the facts about light levels and human vision any less real. If you're standing in the open in bright sunlight, your eyes aren't going to be able to perceive anything as dim as stars. The visor assemblies used during the EVAs had multiple shades and tinted visors to help the crews deal with the bright light.

No. They were there at the earth equivalent of an hour after dawn. And again, because you keep ignoring facts you don't like, lunar dawn is not like earth dawn. There is no pale, predawn light in the east - no gradual increase in light level - no soft, atmospherically filtered glow - no reddish-orange sun dim enough to look at directly with no retinal damage. Without an atmosphere, once the sun has cleared the horizon, it's as bright as it's going to get until it sets.

Heightened emotions indeed.

Like with your other conspiracy theory threads, you've comprehensively lost this argument, which was never about anything more than trying to play the role of the brilliant outsider who sees what no one else is clever enough to see.

You've been exposed to a plethora of facts that disprove the hoax claims you've presented. You've had your misconceptions explained to you, multiple times. But the sad fact is that you'd rather continue advancing dumb arguments than admit that you were wrong.

Please stop with the Grade School lectures on the 'human eye' and please, no more lighting-for-dummies examples of 'what happens in a stadium floodlight'. It is very irritating and that is why the 'debunking' does the opposite of what it claims to do. It takes a belief for granted, say, for ease of understanding, 'the Royal Family are naturally better than the rest of us', your 'patiently' arguing that they are because they are <fx brummie accent> 'considerably richer than yo-owww' and have jewellery and wear crowns'; your starting point 'belief' here is they went to the Moon and those were the pictures they took, DUH' because you've taken it for granted President Nixon would never have lied to the public for political expediency. I am not saying he did. I am simply pointing out the error in your logic.

I used to think people who couldn't see what was obvious to me were somehow deliberately lying or being obtuse but I have come to realise they are not; they really cannot grasp it, people really are unable to think. They see any query as a threat and react with rancour and incredulity.

It's fine; you are baffled as to what point Kaysing or Allen were making, but please don't blame me for that. And I won't get impatient with you as I know you can't - won't - are unable to - get past the given 'belief'.
 
Last edited:
This is the circular argument isn't it? 'There are no stars in the photos because the photos and the camera show it was not possible', when Kaysing set a bigger question: that NASA had a deliberate policy of avoiding critical mention of the stars, as in the press conference wherein we saw the three astronauts were extremely guarded about the issue, with Armstrong saying, 'I don't recall' and then having a scripted response to Moore's question, which he had obviously been given in advance, since he repeated Moore's precise terms verbatim. Armstrong refers to a specific and particular circumstance when it is not reasonable to see the stars, not Kaysing's broader point, which, paradoxically answers itself insofar the astronauts will NOT be drawn on this, so <ahem> rather answers Kaysing's own question!
Absurditas absoluta, as they say in Middlesex schools.
 
T'other day you said it would take a shutter speed of 1,000's of seconds. Since they knew in advance their ETA on the Moon one would hope that the NASA experts would have had the right equipment prepared. Not one that obscures the photos' provenance.
Exactly! They should have gone at night, but NASA were too obsessed at beating the Soviets that they couldn't wait until night.
 
Please stop with the Grade School lectures on the 'human eye' and please, no more lighting-for-dummies examples of 'what happens in a stadium floodlight'.
At this point I could try using smaller words, but that isn't going to make you any less willfully ignorant of simple facts, is it?
It is very irritating...
It's irritating to you because you are being confronted by simple facts of physics that contradict your pet argument, and you seem to have a pathological aversion to admitting error, or even admitting that there's any subject in which you aren't so well versed as to be able to explain it to people who have actually studied it for years.
 
Please stop with the Grade School lectures on the 'human eye' and please, no more lighting-for-dummies examples of 'what happens in a stadium floodlight'.
Apologies if that's all too advanced for you, but I don't think we can dumb down the explanations any further, even though you are clearly incapable of understanding what has been presented so far.
 
Admitting you're wrong is one of the most disarming things you can do - saying "so sorry, I was wrong, and I can't even promise never to be wrong again", when someone is preparing to garrotte you for ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ up, will in most cases make them as docile and content as a sleepy puppy.

This is my only survival trick, but it has served me well.
Er, see thread title: this isn't about what I think or whether I am right or wrong: we are looking at the Apollo Moon 'Hoaxers' ~vs. the 'debunkers'. It amazes me that people do not understand how a debate works.


So what do you think I should confess to being 'wrong' about? That Marcus Allen and Trevor Weaver have not made these claims..?

Or am I supposed to denounce them because of some kind of sentimentality..?
 
Please stop with the Grade School lectures on the 'human eye' and please, no more lighting-for-dummies examples of 'what happens in a stadium floodlight'. It is very irritating…
Your ongoing ignorance requires your betters to attempt to educate you before you can participate in the discussion.
 
At this point I could try using smaller words, but that isn't going to make you any less willfully ignorant of simple facts, is it?

It's irritating to you because you are being confronted by simple facts of physics that contradict your pet argument, and you seem to have a pathological aversion to admitting error, or even admitting that there's any subject in which you aren't so well versed as to be able to explain it to people who have actually studied it for years.
I am advocating for Marcus Allen et al, so they are not my argument. JayUtah advocates for NASA. Do you see how that works?
 

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom