The Truth about RFK Jr

[Chris_Halkides]

Medicinal chemist Derek Lowe wrote, "There's a good new paper in JAMA Internal Medicine looking at a large recent data set in Covid-19 vaccinations in an older population. It's from the Veterans Administration, looking at about one million veterans who got a flu vaccine in 2024, and over three hundred thousand of them also got a coronavirus vaccine. Following up on these cohorts, the authors find that there was a 38% reduction in coronovirus-related major cardiovascular events in that latter vaccinated category, which is very nice to see. Even more interesting is that there was a 24% decrease in all-causes cardiovascular events (that is, including patients who were never diagnosed with a coronavirus infection during this period."

 

[Norman Alexander]

Medicinal chemist Derek Lowe wrote, "There's a good new paper in JAMA Internal Medicine looking at a large recent data set in Covid-19 vaccinations in an older population. It's from the Veterans Administration, looking at about one million veterans who got a flu vaccine in 2024, and over three hundred thousand of them also got a coronavirus vaccine. Following up on these cohorts, the authors find that there was a 38% reduction in coronovirus-related major cardiovascular events in that latter vaccinated category, which is very nice to see. Even more interesting is that there was a 24% decrease in all-causes cardiovascular events (that is, including patients who were never diagnosed with a coronavirus infection during this period."

[croaky-Robbie]
That's fake news!
[/croaky-Robbie]

 

[dann]

Medicinal chemist Derek Lowe wrote, "There's a good new paper in JAMA Internal Medicine looking at a large recent data set in Covid-19 vaccinations in an older population. It's from the Veterans Administration, looking at about one million veterans who got a flu vaccine in 2024, and over three hundred thousand of them also got a coronavirus vaccine. Following up on these cohorts, the authors find that there was a 38% reduction in coronovirus-related major cardiovascular events in that latter vaccinated category, which is very nice to see. Even more interesting is that there was a 24% decrease in all-causes cardiovascular events (that is, including patients who were never diagnosed with a coronavirus infection during this period."

Nice to see, indeed. However, I wonder how much of that apparent effect may have been caused by "healthy vaccinee" bias, a phenomenon I mentioned yesterday in the shingles thread. In general, the veterans who got the C19 vaccine probably tend to be more health conscious, better informed and less likely to be MAGA Republicans than the ones who didn't get it.

 

[bruto]

Nice to see, indeed. However, I wonder how much of that apparent effect may have been caused by "healthy vaccinee" bias, a phenomenon I mentioned yesterday in the shingles thread. In general, the veterans who got the C19 vaccine probably tend to be more health conscious, better informed and less likely to be MAGA Republicans than the ones who didn't get it.

An interesting issue there. At the very least, the "healthy vaccinee" bias seems like a pretty good argument against the foolish contention that vaccines make us sicker. And in an age when people like the idea of things being "holistic," it seems pretty clear than being a "healthy vaccinee" is a good thing rather than a bad one, and being a vaccinee is definitionally part of the package, so whether it's a destination or a sign leading you there it seems a pretty good place to start.

 

[Planigale]

Nice to see, indeed. However, I wonder how much of that apparent effect may have been caused by "healthy vaccinee" bias, a phenomenon I mentioned yesterday in the shingles thread. In general, the veterans who got the C19 vaccine probably tend to be more health conscious, better informed and less likely to be MAGA Republicans than the ones who didn't get it.

There was also an unhealthy vaccinee bias, those with health problems were more likely to be encouraged to take vaccinations, and to do so, than the general population, so your comparator has to be matched.

An interesting issue there. At the very least, the "healthy vaccinee" bias seems like a pretty good argument against the foolish contention that vaccines make us sicker. And in an age when people like the idea of things being "holistic," it eseems pretty clear than being a "healthy vaccinee" is a good thing rather than a bad one, and being a vaccinee is definitionally part of the package, so whether it's a destination or a sign leading you there it seems a pretty good place to start.

The healthy vaccinee bias implies the vaccinated were healthier than the unvaccinated, so regardless of vaccination they would have lower mortality. This may be because the very frail might not be able to get to clinics to be vaccinated. This is certainly something to be considered.

 

[bruto]

There was also an unhealthy vaccinee bias, those with health problems were more likely to be encouraged to take vaccinations, and to do so, than the general population, so your comparator has to be matched.

The healthy vaccinee bias implies the vaccinated were healthier than the unvaccinated, so regardless of vaccination they would have lower mortality. This may be because the very frail might not be able to get to clinics to be vaccinated. This is certainly something to be considered.

Of course you're likely right here, and this is the kind of study for which matched pairs or blinding would be preferable. But the healthy vaccinee enjoys lower mortality from the disease the vaccine targets and at worst loses nothing in return. So in a way, at least for the overall public health, it seems a good thing to promote, even if a better adjusted result shows that the lower mortality is limited to what the vaccine is for.

 

[Planigale]

Of course you're likely right here, and this is the kind of study for which matched pairs or blinding would be preferable. But the healthy vaccinee enjoys lower mortality from the disease the vaccine targets and at worst loses nothing in return. So in a way, at least for the overall public health, it seems a good thing to promote, even if a better adjusted result shows that the lower mortality is limited to what the vaccine is for.

One of the major consequences of all respiratory infections (e.g. flu, pneumonia) is an increased risk of major cardiovascular events in the following weeks. Excess deaths from cardiac events following pneumonia are greater than deaths directly from pneumonia. It has previously been shown that (predictably) flu vaccine reduces strokes and heart attacks. A reduction in cardiovascular deaths is an expected outcome for an effective covid vaccine.

The important point is it answers those vaccine sceptics who are claiming that covid vaccination has caused many deaths.

 

[dann]

An interesting issue there. At the very least, the "healthy vaccinee" bias seems like a pretty good argument against the foolish contention that vaccines make us sicker.

Along with the example of that German guy who got C19 vaccinated more than 200 times!

There was also an unhealthy vaccinee bias, those with health problems were more likely to be encouraged to take vaccinations, and to do so, than the general population, so your comparator has to be matched.

Yes. That was what anti-vaxxers used as an argument when the C19 vaccines were rolled out, starting with 85+ and moving slowly down to younger people as more vaccines were delivered.
Yes, some of them did indeed die a week later, which was not entirely unexpected.

The healthy vaccinee bias implies the vaccinated were healthier than the unvaccinated, so regardless of vaccination they would have lower mortality. This may be because the very frail might not be able to get to clinics to be vaccinated. This is certainly something to be considered.

I think it's more likely that that live healthier lives, as mentioned in a previous post:

In general, the veterans who got the C19 vaccine probably tend to be more health conscious, better informed and less likely to be MAGA Republicans than the ones who didn't get it.

A lot of things come together. The very frail, i.e. the ones who live in old people's homes, may not even have to go to clinics. The clinics come to them. They were among the very first to be C19 vaccinated in many places.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Tangentially related, but things are going well in Chudville:

Flu outbreak among Air Force recruits at Joint Base San Antonio after Hegseth ends mandatory flu vaccine

Likely story as far as the military is concerned Germs don't exist so they need to be incarcerated for maligering and avoiding duty. As the flu does not exist as Kegsgeth has said so why treat those people pretending to be sick with a nonexistant disease?(like all diseases according to the military now).

 

[Norman Alexander]

Likely story as far as the military is concerned Germs don't exist so they need to be incarcerated for maligering and avoiding duty. As the flu does not exist as Kegsgeth has said so why treat those people pretending to be sick with a nonexistant disease?(like all diseases according to the military now).

All the armed forces should just grunt through whatever illnesses that beset them, beit colds, flu, pneumonia or leprosy. That means being MEN! about it, grunting and muscle-flexing all the time, something them soft wimmin and darkies can't do. That's why only MEN! can be Warfighters! ^TM. It takes a MAN! to push a button to launch a drone, don't you know.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Dr. Jonathan Howard uploaded a video about RFK Jr, Jay Bhattacharya and others announcing an initiative to improve clinical trials in the United States. Professor of Infectious Diseases Alex Sundermann critiqued their comments here.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

David Gorski, writing at SBM, examined the retraction of a paper purporting to show a link between vaccines and SIDS using VAERS. He quoted Professor Jeffrey S Morris: "As a Biostatistics professor, it is obvious to me that this is not just a case of suboptimal methods being used or the study being imperfect and having some weaknesses and limitations. The methodology used completely depends upon false assumptions, so is fatally flawed, and without this analysis the paper does not have any standing for publication."

 

[Norman Alexander]

David Gorski, writing at SBM, examined the retraction of a paper purporting to show a link between vaccines and SIDS using VAERS. He quoted Professor Jeffrey S Morris: "As a Biostatistics professor, it is obvious to me that this is not just a case of suboptimal methods being used or the study being imperfect and having some weaknesses and limitations. The methodology used completely depends upon false assumptions, so is fatally flawed, and without this analysis the paper does not have any standing for publication."

Quel surprise.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

At SBM Jonathan Howard wrote, "In December 2021, just before the worst wave of the pandemic for children, I wrote an article titled Incorrect Numbers that discussed an error made by Drs. Marty Makary and Nicole Saphier, our Surgeon General nominee. They had penned an opinion piece in the WSJ regarding the pediatric COVID vaccine but misread a CDC slide set and therefore drastically understated the virus’s impact on children."

Dr. Howard also discussed other things that she said, "Right after Elon Musk boasted that he had “spent the weekend feeding USAID into the wood chipper,” Dr. Saphier paid him homage. “DOGE is probably one of the greatest things to happen in U.S. history,” she said. “Elon Musk and DOGE, I truly believe, are doing great things.” She said it was “for the greater good of things.”

 

[Chris_Halkides]

RFK Jr. commenting on X about Tulsi Gabbard's document drop: "Thank you, Tulsi, for documenting Dr. Fauci's central role in causing the COVID-19 pandemic — among the most consequential crimes in human history."

 

[Norman Alexander]

RFK Jr. commenting on X about Tulsi Gabbard's document drop: "Thank you, Tulsi, for documenting Dr. Fauci's central role in causing the COVID-19 pandemic — among the most consequential crimes in human history."

Most sane people, and even half sane people, would stay the heck away from that overturned nest of vipers in dog-turds.


...Robbie is so gonna try to use Tulsi's stuff to make the DoJ come after Fauci on some insane charge. It will be a train crash made of many rolling dumpster fires, all at once. FUBAR!

 

[lionking]

Most sane people, and even half sane people, would stay the heck away from that overturned nest of vipers in dog-turds.


...Robbie is so gonna try to use Tulsi's stuff to make the DoJ come after Fauci on some insane charge. It will be a train crash made of many rolling dumpster fires, all at once. FUBAR!

I, like so many others, am staggered at how toxic US politics has become in the past year. I tell my children about RFK Js’s comments and I don’t think they believe me.

Of course this is perfectly understandable. Such behaviour would not be tolerated in the civilised world, which unfortunately the US is not currently part of.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

The Guardian reported, "Housing first, harm reduction and safe consumption programs for substance use are also deprioritized, the new CDC memo said. These are all strategies proven to help reduce drug overdoses and help with substance use disorder. “The main thing that harm reduction programs do is bring those people into care and into services that allow them to make those better choices about what they put in their bodies, and the thing these directives do is weaken the most critical frontline care of engaging with people who are falling through the cracks,” [Nabarun] Dasgupta said."

 

[Norman Alexander]

New motto for US Department of Health: "liberos vestros interficiemus".

 

[jimbob]

It's hard to work out whether RFK jr or whiskey leaks is the more damaging pick by Trump