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Merged (edited) General thoughts about Christianity and the bible

Steve said:
Hey man! The apostles were just, like, these dudes, y'know. That other persons made up stories about. They had no say in the matter.
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But if it was fiction, why not make them look better?

Here's an example. At what point did new believers receive the Holy Spirit?

The Apostles thought they had the "formula" in Acts chapter two when
new believers were baptized in water. And that worked in Acts chapter two.

But then in Samaria, the baptized believers had NOT received the Holy Spirit.
How come? The Apostles needed to go and lay hands on them.

The Apostle Paul received the Holy Spirit when Ananias laid hands on him.
Ananias was not an Apostle.

At the house of Cornelius, Peter was still preaching when the Holy Spirit fell on the gentiles there.
They followed with water baptism.

In Ephesus the Apostle Paul met some disciples of Apollos that had not revived the Holy Spirit.
They had only been baptized with John's baptism of repentance.
So they were baptized in Jesus' name and they received the Holy Spirit.
 
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Rusty Tyler said:
But if it was fiction, why not make them look better?

Here's an example. At what point did new believers receive the Holy Spirit?
The Apostles thought they had the "formula" in Acts chapter two when
new believers were baptized in water. And that worked in Acts chapter two.

But then in Samaria, the baptized believers had NOT received the Holy Spirit.
How come? The Apostles needed to go and lay hands on them.

The Apostle Paul received the Holy Spirit when Ananias laid hands on him.
Ananias was not an Apostle.

At the house of Cornelius, Peter was still preaching when the Holy Spirit fell on the gentiles there.
They followed with water baptism.

In Ephesus the Apostle Paul met some disciples of Apollos that had not revived the Holy Spirit.
They had only been baptized with John's baptism of repentance.
So they were baptized in Jesus' name and they received the Holy Spirit.
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They probably looked ok to first/second century middle eastern Jews when the fables were written. People were rather gullible then when it came to religion. Miracles and messiahs were a dime a dozen. Much research over two millennia has mase them look like bungling idiots, as recognized and admitted even by believers such as yourself.
 
Steve said:
Much research over two millennia has mase them look like bungling idiots, as recognized and admitted even by believers such as yourself.
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By that, I mean they were only human, like you and I.
I am not elevating modern humankind above them.
We are bungling idiots as well.

(Here it comes... "Speak for yourself.")
 
sinnikal said:
Do you think your belief may have been different had you been born into an Irish family in Boston?
Or a family in Morocco?
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That was the question I wrestled with as a young adult.
More Morocco than Boston. (India or China actually)

Why was I born in America to Christian parents?
The only true religion handed to me on a silver platter, if you will?

This led me to read the Bible from cover to cover.
Not sure why I thought that would answer my question.
But I was satisfied with the answers.
 
Rusty Tyler said:
By that, I mean they were only human, like you and I.
I am not elevating modern humankind above them.
We are bungling idiots as well.

(Here it comes... "Speak for yourself.")
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I did not mention raising modern humans above them. Why did you?

ETA and this nasty habit you have of snipping quotes to try to alter the meaning does not help your cause one iota.
 
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Rusty Tyler said:
That's a good question, thanks.
Basically, I was raised in the church. Protestant evangelical,
a non-denominational community church.
But that was not enough to initiate a relationship with God.

At eight years of age I was attending a Summer Bible camp in Wisconsin.
In a morning chapel service the man speaking did as they always did, he gave
an invitation to receive Christ. He asked that all heads be bowed and all eyes closed.
But I found myself peeking to see if any of these "lost sinners" would raise a hand.

At that moment God spoke to me. Though it was a supernatural event,
it seemed as natural to me as anything. I knew who it was and wasn't frightened,
or disturbed by it. What I heard was mind-blowing. It came like a tap on my shoulder.

The message was clear and direct. "If you think it is so important, why haven't you done it?"
I was speechless. I answered with my feet. I knew the drill. I rose to my feet and pushed my way
to the aisle to go forward before we were even asked to do so.

When I was a young adult I made a connection about this event that had not been apparent
to me at the time. The man who led me to Christ was the son of the man that led my father to the Lord.
A Christian Alliance missionary that went from farm to farm inviting people to Sunday School
and sharing the gospel in the area where my father grew up. Basically in the middle of nowhere.
Such a wonderful mystery, the workings of our great God.
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Thank you for that Rusty, I appreciate your answer. I'm sure others will point out that most religious people were born into their religion.

But my interest lies here: Is there any part of your experience you can use to convince those of us who don't believe? If I read you right, you probably didn't know the Bible forwards and backwards as an eight year old -- it sounds like you delved deeply into it only after the fact. And Jesus came to you only after a good deal of social and cultural indoctrination.

So I'm wondering how Noah's Ark claims and miracle healing and Bible quotes are meant to be convincing to those of us who either had no indoctrination, or deliberately worked our way out of indoctrination. How do you envision your approach being fruitful?
 
Rusty Tyler said:
Why was I born in America to Christian parents?
The only true religion handed to me on a silver platter, if you will?
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Most religious people were born into their religion and consequently consider it the only true religion. But the fact that this happens in every religion means it can't be veridically true.

You seem to have done much to reinforce what you were taught as a child, before you had the capacity to think critically. The question is what you should do now that your brain has matured and what you learned propositionally as a child doesn't seem to correlate with an objective observed reality.
 
Rusty Tyler said:
I did not mention having a cause. Why did you?
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How many threads have you started with the blatantly obvious purpose of trying to convince others that there is merit to your religious belief? You may, or may not, have stated a cause somewhere in your 840+ posts here, but your cause is none the less blindingly apparent.
 
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